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:[[Roshterian/Swadesh list]]
:[[Roshterian/Swadesh list]]
:[[Roshterian/Lexicon]]
:[[Roshterian/Lexicon]]
:[[Roshterian/Oṟbiros̱ṯer|Funcuma di oṟbiros̱ṯer (This page in Roshterian)]]
:[[Roshterian/Giatiroxṯer|Funcumi di giatiroxṯer (This page in Roshterian)]]
{{Infobox language
'''Roshterian''' (from rāSTra) is an Indian language isolate of the Lõis timeline.
|image =
|imagesize =
|creator = [[User:IlL|IlL]]
|setting = [[Verse:Tricin]]
|name = {{PAGENAME}}
|nativename = ''oṟbiros̱ṯer''
|pronunciation=  /ɔɻbɪɾɔʂˈʈɛɾ/
|region = Northeast Etalocin
|speakers = 5.1 million (about as much as Finnish)
|date = fT 11E0<sub>dd</sub>
|familycolor=PfK
|fam1= [[Proto-Quihum|Quihum]]
|fam2= [[Talmic languages|Talmic]]
|iso3=qrh
|notice=IPA
|nation=Roshteria
|script=Clofabic script
}}
 
 
'''Roshterian''' /rɒʃˈtɛriən/ (native name: ''oṟbiros̱ṯer'' /ɔɻbɪɾɔʂˈʈɛɾ/ 'The Roshterian language') is a [[Talmic languages|Talmic language]] inspired by P-Celtic (particularly Welsh). It is intended to be a polysynthetic language with a pseudo-European aesthetic. Roshterian is an official language of Roshteria (''Qaaros̱ṯer'') and is the native language of 5.1 million people, most of which live in Roshteria. Among Etalocians, it is famous for its grammar: it is a head-initial, polysynthetic language with a complex agglutinating verb morphology that uses polypersonal agreement, evidentials, applicative constructions and noun incorporation.
 
==History==
:''See also: [[Old Roshterian]]
{{quote box
|width=25%
|quote=The Roshterian tongue is not only matchless in beauty, but is surely among the most bountiful of troves for the student of languages. No Talman can but marvel at this language's great depth and uncanny familiarity to him ... While its words and forms display some affinity to our own language [&zwnj;[[Eevo]]], they are even more akin to the ancient [[Thensarian]] language, indeed to such a degree that its Talmic provenance cannot be doubted ... Curiously, the Roshterian speech in particular is pronounced with consonants with strong tongue-curling ... it has a proclivity towards using lengthy words for single utterances where a succession of smaller words and prefixes combine in a quite volatile manner, reminding one of the language of [[old Eevo]] texts ... I think it proper to further study this curious language, wherein is sure to lie solutions to great mysteries surrounding the common forebear of Talmic languages.
|source=Aloð Bolltind, from the preface of ''Talasah lly łidút a jawþ Rosderib'' (An introduction to the grammar of the Roshterian tongue)
}}
 
The ancestors of modern-day Roshterians are hypothesized to have been an autochthonous people who gradually adopted a Talmic superstrate language. Until relatively recent times little was known of the language to outsiders (save for a handful of legends of a race of "backwards-talking" people with bodies of reversed chirality).
 
The first written example of a complete Roshterian sentence is found in a Clofabian travel journal dating to ca. fT 830dd (in Clofabic script):
 
:'''''olbiroaxterem taicaxan habo metuperen'''''
:''I would like to speak Roshterian; alas, I cannot.''
 
(In modern Roshterian orthography: ''Bys oṟbiros̱ṯerimytaicyn, boorimituperen.'' 'gladly-language-Roshterian-speak-1SG but-EVID.DIR-NEG-do-can-1SG')
 
This sentence was likely written by a non-native speaker of Roshterian, seeing by the fact that he/she omitted evidentials, which would be required in the second clause.
 
The significance of Roshterian for Talmic linguistics was first noted by the Eevo linguist Aloð Bolltind. He proposed that it reflected all four dorsal series of Proto-Talmic differently, unlike the (in Talma) hitherto known Thensaric languages:
 
*{{recon|''k, g''}} > Roshterian ''c, g''; Thensarian ''c, g''
*{{recon|''kʷ, gʷ''}} > Rosh. ''p, b''; Thn. ''c, g''
*{{recon|''q, ʁ''}} > Rosh. ''q, ḡ''; Thn. ''ȝ, ħ''
*{{recon|''qʷ, ʁʷ''}} > Rosh. ''s̱, ṟ''; Thn. ''c, g''
 
==Todo==
Affix fusion rules -- just say the morphemes fast and see what happens
*''Tiis̱i'' = a female name
*''Ḻuba'' = A male name
*In prefixes, ni- > i- (important!)
*How do I get "holophrastic" words [words with the meaning of whole sentences]
*Applicative prefixes should be older than prepositions
*Disallow initial /s/
 
==Numbers==
==Numbers==
TODO: Combining forms, ordinals, distributives
TODO: Combining forms, ordinals, distributives
*1: ''peem, peemy-''
*1: ''peem, peemy-''
*2: ''ṯitu, ṯitu-''
*2: ''ṯitu, ṯitu-''
*3: ''naṟg, naṟ-''
*3: ''naaṟ, naṟ-''
*4: ''loob, loo-''
*4: ''loob, loo-''
*5: ''helit'', ''lit-''
*5: ''helit'', ''lit-''
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| '''s''' /s̪/
| '''s''' /s̪/
|  
|  
| '''s̱''' /ʂ/
| '''x''' /ʂ/
|  
|  
|  
|  
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|}
|}


'''j z''' /j z/ are used in loanwords.
Palatals and aspirated stops are used in loanwords from Indic.


;Notes
;Notes
*The voiceless stops /p t̪ ʈ k q/ are normally aspirated as much as Japanese voiceless stops; however, they are unaspirated after fricatives.  
*The voiceless stops /p t̪ ʈ k q/ are unaspirated.
*/n̪ t̪ d̪ l̪/ are dental; /s̪/ is dentalized alveolar (transcribed /n t d s l/ for sake of convenience).
*/n̪ t̪ d̪ l̪/ are dental; /s̪/ is dentalized alveolar (transcribed /n t d s l/ for sake of convenience).
*[ŋ] and [ɴ] are allophones of /n̪/ before velar and uvular consonants, respectively.
*[ŋ] and [ɴ] are allophones of /n̪/ before velar and uvular consonants, respectively.
*/r/ can be an alveolar flap [ɾ], an apical retroflex flap [ɽ], or trilled [r].
*/r/ can be an alveolar flap [ɾ], an apical retroflex flap [ɽ], or trilled [r].
*/ɳ ʈ ɖ ɭ/ can be realized as apical-postalveolar (like Hindi retroflexes) or subapical-palatal (like Tamil retroflexes). The apical realization dominates in casual speech, while the subapical realization occurs more in careful speech. After /ʂ/, /ʈ/ is always apical.
*/ɳ ʈ ɖ ɭ/ can be realized as apical-postalveolar (like Hindi retroflexes) or subapical-palatal (like Tamil retroflexes). The apical realization dominates in casual speech, while the subapical realization occurs in careful or formal speech. After /ʂ/, /ʈ/ is always apical.
**Colloquial Roshterian often merges /ɖ/ and /ɭ/.
**Colloquial Roshterian often merges /ɖ/ and /ɭ/.
*/ʂ/ is laminal post-alveolar [s̠] or sometimes [ɧ].
*/ʂ/ is laminal post-alveolar [s̠] or sometimes [ɧ].
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===Phonotactics===
===Phonotactics===
Roshterian allows fewer clusters than [[Proto-Talmic]]. Only two-consonant clusters are permitted and they are subject to the sonority hierarchy. However, final clusters are allowed.
Roshterian allows fewer clusters than [[Talmic|Proto-Talmic]]. Only two-consonant clusters are permitted, obstruent + nasal and fricative + sonorant clusters are prohibited. However, final clusters are allowed.


Here are the allowed clusters:
Here are the allowed clusters:
*Not allowed finally: /pl bl pr br tr dr ʈr ɖr kl kr/ {{angbr|''pl pr br dr tr dr ṯr ḏr cl cr''}}
*Not allowed finally: /pl bl pr br tr dr ʈr ɖr kl kr/ {{angbr|''pl bl pr br tr dr ṯr ḏr cl cr''}}
**Some dialects may have /ʈɻ ɖɻ/ for /ʈr ɖr/.
**Some dialects may have /ʈɻ ɖɻ/ for /ʈr ɖr/.
**Some dialects always use [Cɭ] or [Cɻ] for /Cr/.
**Some dialects always use [Cɭ] or [Cɻ] for /Cr/.
*Not allowed initially: /mp nt ɳʈ ŋk ɴq mb nd ɳɖ ŋg ɴʁ ns ɳʂ lp lt ɭʈ lk ɭq lb ld ɭɖ lg ɭʁ rp rt ɻʈ rk rq rb rd ɻɖ rg rʁ rm rn ɻb ɻg ɻm ɻɳ sp st ʂʈ sk ʂq/ {{angbr|''mp nt ṉṯ nc nq mb nd ṉḏ ng nḡ ns ṉs̱ lp lt ḻṯ lc ḻq lb ld ḻḏ lg ḻḡ rp rt ṟṯ rc rq rb rd ṟḏ rg rḡ rm rn ṟb ṟg ṟm ṟṉ sp st s̱ṯ sc s̱q''}}
*Not allowed initially: /mp nt ɳʈ ŋk ɴq mb nd ɳɖ ŋg ɴʁ ns ɳʂ lp lt ɭʈ lk ɭq lb ld ɭɖ lg ɭʁ rp rt ɻʈ rk rq rb rd ɻɖ rg rʁ rm rn ɻb ɻg ɻm ɻɳ sp st ʂʈ sk ʂq/ {{angbr|''mp nt ṉṯ nc nq mb nd ṉḏ ng nḡ ns ṉx lp lt ḻṯ lc ḻq lb ld ḻḏ lg ḻḡ rp rt ṟṯ rc rq rb rd ṟḏ rg rḡ rm rn ṟb ṟg ṟm ṟṉ sp st xṯ sc xq''}}
In addition, ''s'' and ''ṟ'' are not allowed initially.
====Sandhi====
====Sandhi====
==Orthography==
Roshterian natively uses the Clofabic script; apart from [[Eevo]] it is the only Talmic language that uses the Clofabic script. A diacritic is used for retroflex and uvular consonants.
{| class="bluetable lightbluebg " style=" text-align: center;"
|-
|+ '''Roshterian alphabet'''
|-
!|Grapheme
!X!!Xᑊ!!Ⱶ!!Ⱶᑊ!!Ŧ!!Ꙟ!!ᖵ!!ᖵᑊ!!Π!!Πᑊ!!L!!Lᑊ!!Σ!!Σᑊ!!Ш!!И!!Иᑊ!!Ⳙ!!Ỻ!!Ǝ!!Ǝᑊ!!Ꜭ!!Ꝩ!!Ʞ!!₭!!Λ!!Δ!!Ξ
|-
!|Name
|''do''||''ḏo''||''re''||''ṟe''||''mi''||''fa''||''sol''||''s̱ol''||''la''||''ḻa''||''ti''||''ṯi''||''go''||''ḡo''||''pe''||''nar''||''ṉar''||''wi''||''ba''||''ce''||''qe''||''ha''||''i''||''e''||''y''||''a''||''o''||''u''
|-
!|Transliteration
|d||ḏ||r||ṟ||m||f||s||s̱||l||ḻ||t||ṯ||g||ḡ||p||n||ṉ||w||b||c||q||h||i||e||y||a||o||u
|}
===Punctuation===
*| = period
*. = comma
*₂ = strong comma
*ᑉ = question mark
*ᖾ = exclamation point
*- = dash
*~ = ellipsis
*⸗ = semicolon
*ᕑ = colon
*⟨ ⟩ = parentheses
===Numerals===
Eevo uses a base-12 positional numeral system. The digits are as follows:
ɔ ı ʎ ɺ ħ ʕ ʑ ɛ ɴ κ ə ʋ = 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 X E
duodecimal point: :
1728's separator: · (optional)
Examples:
2017 = 1,201dd = ı·ʎɔı
π = 3.184809493b918...dd = ɺ:ıɴħ·ɴɔк·ħкɺ·кʋı·ɴ... or ɺ:ıɴħɴɔкħкɺкʋıɴ...
==Sound changes==
The most significant change characterizing Roshterian is the coalescing and altering of consonant clusters, often creating retroflex consonants.
*kw, gw > p, b
*gl-, gr- > l, r
*{{recon|ā}} > ''ia'' ({{recon|nā}} > ''nia'' 'I'); {{recon|ō}} > ''ua''; {{recon|au}} > ''oo''; {{recon|ou}} > ''uu''; {{recon|ū}} > ''ii''
*{{recon|qʷ}} > /χʷ/ > /ɧ/ > ''s̱''; {{recon|ʁʷ}} > /ζ/ > ''ṟ''
**''ʁʷelinə'' ("6 parts [of 12]") > ''ṟelin'' 'half'
**''gʷaθwā'' > ''bati'' 'neck, throat' ~ Thn. ''gaθvā'' 'throat (also language)'
*{{recon|sl-, sm-, sn-}} > ''ḻ-, f-, ṉ-''
*{{recon|sɸ-, sr-, sw-}} > ''s̱-, ṟ-, s̱-''
*{{recon|st, sk, skʷ, sq}} > ''ṯ-/sṯ, t-/st-, f, q-/s̱q''
**''stuφs'' 'fire' > ''ṯuu''
**''stas-'' > ''ṯetsil'' 'gathering' (~ Thn. ''Stasnyssōs'' > Tíogall ''Stánsa'', Clofabosin ''stannsin'' 'a holiday')
**''skəttai'' > ''tyyta'' 'body' ~ Thn. ''scattae''
**{{recon|bastom}} > ''bast'' 'king' ~ Thn. ''bastom'' 'head'
*{{recon|sb, sd, sg}} > ''ṟb, ṟḏ, ṟg''
**{{recon|nasg-}} > ''naṟg'' '3'
*{{recon|φn, tn, φl, tl/dl}} > /ːn, t-/ts, ːt, ʈ/ɖ/
**''θnāgin'' > ''tiagin'' 'I believe' ~ Thn. ''θnāginis''
**''oφlutsus'' > ''ootus'' 'wave'
*{{recon|kt, qt}} > /jt, ːʈ/
**{{recon|tektə}} > ''teit'' /teit/ 'child'
**{{recon|neqtə}} > ''neeṯ'' /neːʈ/ 'cloud'
*{{recon|ks, qs}} > /js, ːʂ/
*{{recon|kn, gn, kʷn, gʷn, qn, ql, qr}} > /jn, jn, m, m, :ɳ, :ɻ, :ɻ/ (with **/uj/ > /uː/ )
**''sφugnus'' > ''s̱uun''  'root' ~ Thn. ''sφugnus''
**''leqnos'' > ''leeṉ'' 'river' ~ Thn. ''leānos''?
**''qrīdis'' > ''ṟiid'' 'knife' ~ Thn. ''ȝrīdis'' 'edge'
*Word-initially, kn, gn, kʷn, gʷn > /kl, gl, pl, bl/
**''gʷnūnum'' > ''bliin'' 'scar' ~ Thn. ''gnūnum'' 'scar', Tíogall ''gnúinte'' 'scar'
*{{recon|φj, tj, kj, qj}} > ''pt s s-/ts ḡ''
*{{recon|j-, s-}} > ''h-''
*{{recon|φ-}} > ''∅-''
*Initial short vowels drop
*{{recon|skj, stj}} > ''ṯ-/s̱ṯ, s-/ːs''
*final short vowels lost; final ''-m, -r, -s, -t'' lost; final long vowels shorten (''ia, ua'' > ''i, u'')
*''i''-affection: The following changes affect V1 in sequences of the form V1 + consonant cluster + ultimate (*i/*ī/*j) unless the consonant cluster after V1 contains a retroflex consonant.
**''a'' > ''e''
**''e'' > ''i''
*Stress shifts to final
*Some combining forms and combined forms are altered due to the stress shift - conjunct forms for verbs arise when there is an antepenultimate syllable
*penultimate ''ia'' > ''i''
*remaining ''s-'' > ''t-''


==Morphology==
==Morphology==
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All verb stems have a ''combining form'', also called the ''incorporating form'', which is used in the presence of an object marker, negative prefix or an ''incorporandum'' (incorporated object). Any noun stem can be incorporated, including proper nouns.
All verb stems have a ''combining form'', also called the ''incorporating form'', which is used in the presence of an object marker, negative prefix or an ''incorporandum'' (incorporated object). Any noun stem can be incorporated, including proper nouns.


''hootiis̱yn'' 'eat fruit' < ''hooti'' 'fruit' + ''caasyn'' 'eat'
''hootiixyn'' 'eat fruit' < ''hooti'' 'fruit' + ''caasyn'' 'eat'


====Verb template====
====Verb template====
The Roshterian verb has 9-10 slots which mark a variety of grammatical information. Slots that must obligatorily be filled are in bold.
The Roshterian verb has 8-9 slots which mark a variety of grammatical information. Slots that must obligatorily be filled are in bold.


*discourse - considered clitics by some
*discourse - considered clitics by some
*evidentiality/interrogative
*evidentiality/interrogative
*negation/focus
*negation
*causative person marker
*causative person marker
*object person marker/passive marker
*object person marker/passive marker
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*''boo-'' = 'alas'
*''boo-'' = 'alas'
*''yṟ/ṟy-'' = (softening marker)
*''yṟ/ṟy-'' = (softening marker)
*''gora-'' = 'oh no!'
*[mirative]
*[antimirative: "unsurprisingly"]


=====Evidentiality affixes=====
=====Evidentiality affixes=====
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*''i-'' (before C), ''r-'' (before V) = I witnessed or otherwise directly experienced this
*''i-'' (before C), ''r-'' (before V) = I witnessed or otherwise directly experienced this
*''pyn-'' = information I obtained from hearsay or am quoting
*''pyn-'' = information I obtained from hearsay or am quoting
*''dre-'' = a third-party source I consider credible
*''nar-'' = a third-party source I consider credible
*''me-'' = my own inference, assumption or subjective opinion
*''me-'' = my own inference, assumption or subjective opinion
*''hy-'' (< PTal ''*səni φī...'' 'tell me if...') = interrogative (used for both wh-questions and yes-no questions)
*''hy-'' (< PTal ''*səni φī...'' 'tell me if...') = interrogative (used for both wh-questions and yes-no questions)
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=====Negative/focus affixes=====
=====Negative/focus affixes=====
Negation is marked with the negative affix ''mis-'' (before V), or ''mi-''/''N-'' (before C), which may alter the verb stem to its incorporating form.
Negation is marked with the negative affix ''mis-'' (before V), or ''mi-''/''N-'' (before C), which may alter the verb stem to its incorporating form.
There's also focused affirmative ("yes, X is true") and focused negative ("no, X isn't true") affixes, used e.g. when answering questions.


*Negative: ''mis-'', ''mi-'', ''N-''
*Negative: ''mis-'', ''mi-'', ''N-''
*Focused affirmative: ''fe-''
*Focused negative: ''tir-''


=====Causative person markers=====
=====Causative person markers=====
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=====Subject+TAM markers=====
=====Subject+TAM markers=====
Roshterian tenses: present, perfect, imperfect, future
{{col-begin}}
{{col-begin}}
{{col-break}}
{{col-break}}
{| class="bluetable"
{| class="bluetable"
|+ Progressive indicative
|+ Present indicative
|-
|-
! Person !! Affix !! ''-ḡaimian'' 'I fly' !! ''-caasyn'' "I eat"
! Person !! Affix !! ''-ḡaimian'' 'I fly' !! ''-caasyn'' "I eat"
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{{col-break}}
{{col-break}}
{| class="bluetable"
{| class="bluetable"
|+ Perfective indicative
|+ Past indicative
|-
|-
! Person  !! ''-ḡaimian'' "I fly" || ''-caasyn'' "I eat"
! Person  !! ''-ḡaimian'' "I fly" || ''-caasyn'' "I eat"
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*''-peren'': 'I can/I'm able to'
*''-peren'': 'I can/I'm able to'
*''-ṯysin'': 'I may/I have permission to' (negated: 'I must not')
*''-ṯysin'': 'I may/I have permission to' (negated: 'I must not')
*''-s̱an'': 'I intend to'
*''-xan'': 'I will' (future tense)
*''-dawan'': 'I want to' (future tense)


====Copula====
====Copula====
To express "is a [NOUN]" or "is [ADJ]", the copula ''-(l)uan'' is suffixed to the bare stem of X; X plus the copula then goes to the normal stem slot for purposes of verb inflection. The noun itself doesn't go into the plural even when the subject is plural.
To express "is a [NOUN]" or "is [ADJ]", the copula ''-(l)uan'' is suffixed to the bare stem of X; X plus the copula then goes to the normal stem slot for purposes of verb inflection. The noun itself doesn't go into the plural even when the subject is plural.


:'''''Lameṯeituu.'''''
:'''''Lamebaaṯuu.'''''
:la-me-ṯeit-uu
:la-me-baaṯ-uu
:merely-INFERRED-child-COP.PRES.3PL
:merely-INFERRED-child-COP.PRES.3PL
:''In my opinion, they are mere children.''
:''In my opinion, they are mere children.''


:'''''Hyroṉḏuar, hywleituar?'''''
:'''''Hyroṉḏuar, hyteituar?'''''
:hy-roṉḏ-uar, hy-bleit-uar
:hy-roṉḏ-uar, hy-teit-uar
:Q-man-COP.2SG, Q-woman-COP.PRES.2SG
:Q-man-COP.2SG, Q-child-COP.PRES.2SG
:''Are you a man or a woman?''
:''Are you a man or a boy?''


When the copula is added on nouns without an evidential, it emphasizes the noun or simply indicates the tense of an action (either past or non-past).
When the copula is added on nouns without an evidential, it emphasizes the noun or simply indicates the tense of an action (either past or non-past).
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===Nouns===
===Nouns===
Nouns are marked with a singular-plural distinction, and may also take possessive suffixes. However, the lemma form of a noun is typically its combining form, which is the incorporated form of a noun and is also used to form possessed forms and compounds. Unlike [[Thensarian]], Roshterian lost the [[Proto-Talmic]] grammatical gender; gendered pronouns and verb affixes no longer mark grammatical gender, but natural gender (as in [[Naquian]]). There is no definite or indefinite article.
Nouns are marked with a singular-plural distinction, and may also take possessive suffixes. However, the lemma form of a noun is typically its combining form, which is the incorporated form of a noun and is also used to form possessed forms and compounds. Unlike [[Thensarian]], Roshterian lost the Proto-[[Talmic]] grammatical gender; gendered pronouns and verb affixes no longer mark grammatical gender, but natural gender (as in [[Naquian]]). There is no definite or indefinite article.


The plural form is inherited from the Proto-Talmic reduplicated collective, and is often formed by reduplication. Example: ''bleit'' /blɛit/ 'woman', ''bebleit'' /bɛˈblɛit/ 'women'. Some irregularities may be present due to the retention of the original single consonant in the reduplicant, as opposed to the stem-initial cluster where the consonants interacted to produce new consonants and clusters.
The plural form is inherited from the Proto-Talmic reduplicated collective, and is often formed by reduplication. Example: ''bleit'' /blɛit/ 'woman', ''bebleit'' /bɛˈblɛit/ 'women'. Some irregularities may be present due to the retention of the original single consonant in the reduplicant, as opposed to the stem-initial cluster where the consonants interacted to produce new consonants and clusters.
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|''weinys''||''uweinys''
|''weinys''||''uweinys''
|-
|-
!|his/her (3)
!|his (3)
|''weinyti''||''uweinyti''
|''weinyty''||''uweinyty''
|-
!|her (3)
|''weinytii''||''uweinytii''
|-
|-
!|its (3)
!|its (3)
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|-
|-
!|our (inc)
!|our (inc)
|''weinys̱''||''uweinys̱''
|''weinyx''||''uweinyx''
|-
|-
!|your (pl)
!|your (pl)
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|''doiros''||''ledoiros''
|''doiros''||''ledoiros''
|-
|-
!|his/her
!|his
|''doiroti''||''ledoiroti''
|''doiroty''||''ledoiroty''
|-
!|her
|''doirotii''||''ledoirotii''
|-
|-
!|its
!|its
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|-
|-
!|our (inc)
!|our (inc)
|''doiros̱''||''ledoiros̱''
|''doirox''||''ledoirox''
|-
|-
!|your (pl)
!|your (pl)
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|''ṟiidis''||''qeṟiidis''
|''ṟiidis''||''qeṟiidis''
|-
|-
!|his/her
!|his
|''ṟiiditi''||''qeṟiiditi''
|''ṟiidity''||''qeṟiidity''
|-
!|her
|''ṟiiditii''||''qeṟiiditii''
|-
|-
!|its
!|its
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|-
|-
!|our (inc)
!|our (inc)
|''ṟiidis̱''||''qeṟiidis̱''
|''ṟiidix''||''qeṟiidix''
|-
|-
!|your (pl)
!|your (pl)
Line 782: Line 644:
*that: ''-pa''
*that: ''-pa''


===Adjectives===
===Adjectives===  
Predicative adjectives work the same way as predicative nouns in that they must take the copula. The class of adjectives is actually a small, closed subclass of nouns, usually relating to shape, color, size, texture, and other concrete properties of objects and relatively permanent characteristics of people.
The class of adjectives is actually a small, closed subclass of nouns, usually relating to concrete properties of objects such as shape, color, size, and texture, and relatively permanent characteristics of people. Note that most English adjectives, like "cozy", "active", "incendiary", ..., are expressed in Roshterian by other means such as inflected verbs or verb phrases.
 
Predicative adjectives work the same way as predicative nouns in that they must take the copula.  


Attributive adjectives are compounded after the noun.
Attributive adjectives are compounded after the noun.
Line 817: Line 681:
!|1 + 2
!|1 + 2
|
|
|''pyd''
|''pynd''
|-
|-
!|2
!|2
|''weer''
|''weer''
|''cyvi''
|''typi''
|-
|-
!|3 (masculine)
!|3 (masculine)
Line 872: Line 736:
Sometimes not using applicatives is preferred, sometimes vice versa:
Sometimes not using applicatives is preferred, sometimes vice versa:


:''Idis̱oorin Qaaros̱ṯerim.''
:''Ixoorin di Qaaroxṯerim.''
:'I live in Roshteria.' (lit. I inhabit Roshteria)
:'I live in Roshteria.' (lit. I live in Roshteria)
 
:''Idixoorin ḡeeliaṉ.''
:'I live in a city.' (lit. I inhabit a city)


:''Is̱oorin di ḡeeliaṉ.''
:'I live in a city.'


Applicatives are not only useful for emphasizing or topicalizing the oblique argument but in fact are necessary for certain syntactic constructions (and for just sounding natural). When an applicative is used, the original direct object (when used) takes the instrumental preposition ''nai''.
Applicatives are not only useful for emphasizing or topicalizing the oblique argument but in fact are necessary for certain syntactic constructions (and for just sounding natural). When an applicative is used, the original direct object (when used) takes the instrumental preposition ''nai''.
Line 882: Line 747:
For example:  
For example:  


:'''''Ṯimylt impubri pergofaaṟidi nai maaqes̱?'''''
:'''''Ṯimylt impubri pergofaaṟidi nai maaqex?'''''
:''Where is the shelf where I put the spices?'' [lit. that I beput with the spices]
:''Where is the shelf where I put the spices?'' [lit. that I beput with the spices]


Line 898: Line 763:
The relative clause is marked by a nominalizing affix ''ped-''.
The relative clause is marked by a nominalizing affix ''ped-''.


:'''''Meiḻicort ḡeeliaṉ pedidis̱oorin.'''''
:'''''Meiḻicort ḡeeliaṉ pedidixoorin.'''''
:me-eiḻi-cort-0 ḡeeliaṉ ped-i-di-s̱oor-in
:me-eiḻi-cort-0 ḡeeliaṉ ped-i-di-xoor-in
:EVID_SUBJ-heart-embrace-3SG.N city NMLZ-EV.DIR-APP.LOC-live-PRES.1SG
:EVID_SUBJ-heart-embrace-3SG.N city NMLZ-EV.DIR-APP.LOC-live-PRES.1SG
:''The city that I live in is cozy.'' (lit. The city that I inhabit embraces the heart.)
:''The city that I live in is cozy.'' (lit. The city that I inhabit embraces the heart.)
:[Note that most English adjectives, like "cozy", "active", "incendiary", ..., correspond to an inflected verb in Roshterian.]


====Complement clauses====
====Complement clauses====
Line 912: Line 776:
===Tower of Babel===
===Tower of Babel===
===Snake Lemma===
===Snake Lemma===
:''Professor Kate Gunzinger proves the Snake Lemma in the film ''It's My Turn'' (1980). I'm skipping the proof, which is less linguistically interesting. [Most Roshterians prefer to use Eevo terms when discussing higher mathematics anyway.]''
:''Professor Kate Gunzinger proves the Snake Lemma in the film ''It's My Turn'' (1980). I'll omit the proof, which is less linguistically interesting. [Most Roshterians prefer to use [[Eevo]] terms when discussing higher mathematics anyway.]''


:'''''Yṟonypinoofer has̱upimyṯrut ''bimróþ'' s, biṉṯylaḡilcama peeṯypryṉifiaqalip, ḻe?'''''
:'''''Haxupimyṯrut yṟonypinoofer ''binróþ'' s, beṉṯylaḡilcoma peeṯypryṉifiaqolip, ḻe?'''''
:Yṟ-ony-pi-noo-fer has̱u-pi-myṯru-t bimróþ s bin-ṯy-laḡ-ilcam-a ḻe
:haxu-pi-myṯru-t yṟ-ony-pi-noo-fer binróþ s ben-ṯy-laḡ-ilcom-a pee-ṯypr-yṉif-iaqoli-ip ḻe
:DISC_SOFTEN-CAUS.1SG-4-see-2PL.SUBJ.PERF way-4-build-CONST mathematical_function s, DISC_SHOULD_BE_OBVIOUS-PASS-APPL_TELIC-sow-3SG.N NOMZ-PASS-examine-show-at_first-4 TAG
:way-4-build-CONST DISC_SOFTEN-CAUS.1SG-4-see-2PL.SUBJ.PERF mathematical_function s, DISC_"should be obvious"-PASS-APPL_TELIC-sow-3SG.N NOMZ-PASS-examine-show-at_first-4 TAG
:''Let me just show you how to construct the map s, which is the fun of the lemma anyhow, okay?''
:''Let me just show you how to *construct* the map s, which is the fun of the lemma anyhow, okay?''
[[Category:Talmic languages]]
[[Category:Talmic languages]]

Latest revision as of 13:34, 23 March 2024

Roshterian/Swadesh list
Roshterian/Lexicon
Funcumi di giatiroxṯer (This page in Roshterian)

Roshterian (from rāSTra) is an Indian language isolate of the Lõis timeline.

Numbers

TODO: Combining forms, ordinals, distributives

  • 1: peem, peemy-
  • 2: ṯitu, ṯitu-
  • 3: naaṟ, naṟ-
  • 4: loob, loo-
  • 5: helit, lit-
  • 6: ṯiam
  • 7: ruad
  • 8: loṟ
  • 9: baṟ
  • 10: ḡiṟ
  • 11: huplai
  • 12: plai

Phonology

Consonants

Roshterian uses the following consonants:

Labial Dental/Alveolar Retroflex Velar Uvular Glottal
central lateral central lateral
Nasal m /m/ n /n̪/ ṉ /ɳ/ [ŋ] [ɴ]
Stop voiceless p /p/ t /t̪/ ṯ /ʈ/ c /k/ q /q/
voiced b /b/ d /d̪/ ḏ /ɖ/ g /g/
Continuant voiceless f /f/ s /s̪/ x /ʂ/ h /h/
voiced w /w/ r /r/ l /l̪/ ṟ /ɻ/ ḻ /ɭ/ ḡ /ʁ/

Palatals and aspirated stops are used in loanwords from Indic.

Notes
  • The voiceless stops /p t̪ ʈ k q/ are unaspirated.
  • /n̪ t̪ d̪ l̪/ are dental; /s̪/ is dentalized alveolar (transcribed /n t d s l/ for sake of convenience).
  • [ŋ] and [ɴ] are allophones of /n̪/ before velar and uvular consonants, respectively.
  • /r/ can be an alveolar flap [ɾ], an apical retroflex flap [ɽ], or trilled [r].
  • /ɳ ʈ ɖ ɭ/ can be realized as apical-postalveolar (like Hindi retroflexes) or subapical-palatal (like Tamil retroflexes). The apical realization dominates in casual speech, while the subapical realization occurs in careful or formal speech. After /ʂ/, /ʈ/ is always apical.
    • Colloquial Roshterian often merges /ɖ/ and /ɭ/.
  • /ʂ/ is laminal post-alveolar [s̠] or sometimes [ɧ].
  • /ɻ/ can be post-alveolar [ɹ̠] or truly retroflex [ɻ].
  • /ʁ/ is a voiced uvular fricative [ʁ] or a trill [ʀ].
  • /w/ is [v] in some dialects.

Vowels

Front Central Back
short long short long short long
Close i /ɪ/ ii /iː/ u /ʊ/ uu /uː/
Mid e /ɛ/ ee /eː/ y /ə/ yy /əː/ o /ɔ/ oo /oː/
Open a /a/ aa /aː/

In addition, the following diphthongs are used: ⟨ai ei ia au ua oi iu⟩ /aɪ ɛɪ iə ɛʊ uə ɔɪ ɪʊ/

Notes
  • /ɪ, iː/ are centralized after retroflex consonants to [ɪ̈, ɨː]; for example, ṉii 'big' is pronounced [ɳɨː]
  • /eː, oː/ are lowered to [ɛː, ɔː] before retroflexes and uvulars.

Stress

There is no phonemic stress or tone; all words are pronounced with word-final stress.

Phonotactics

Roshterian allows fewer clusters than Proto-Talmic. Only two-consonant clusters are permitted, obstruent + nasal and fricative + sonorant clusters are prohibited. However, final clusters are allowed.

Here are the allowed clusters:

  • Not allowed finally: /pl bl pr br tr dr ʈr ɖr kl kr/ ⟨pl bl pr br tr dr ṯr ḏr cl cr⟩
    • Some dialects may have /ʈɻ ɖɻ/ for /ʈr ɖr/.
    • Some dialects always use [Cɭ] or [Cɻ] for /Cr/.
  • Not allowed initially: /mp nt ɳʈ ŋk ɴq mb nd ɳɖ ŋg ɴʁ ns ɳʂ lp lt ɭʈ lk ɭq lb ld ɭɖ lg ɭʁ rp rt ɻʈ rk rq rb rd ɻɖ rg rʁ rm rn ɻb ɻg ɻm ɻɳ sp st ʂʈ sk ʂq/ ⟨mp nt ṉṯ nc nq mb nd ṉḏ ng nḡ ns ṉx lp lt ḻṯ lc ḻq lb ld ḻḏ lg ḻḡ rp rt ṟṯ rc rq rb rd ṟḏ rg rḡ rm rn ṟb ṟg ṟm ṟṉ sp st xṯ sc xq⟩

In addition, s and ṟ are not allowed initially.

Sandhi

Morphology

Verbs

Each verb has 3 principal parts: the progressive stem, the habitual stem and the preterite stem.

Object incorporation

All verb stems have a combining form, also called the incorporating form, which is used in the presence of an object marker, negative prefix or an incorporandum (incorporated object). Any noun stem can be incorporated, including proper nouns.

hootiixyn 'eat fruit' < hooti 'fruit' + caasyn 'eat'

Verb template

The Roshterian verb has 8-9 slots which mark a variety of grammatical information. Slots that must obligatorily be filled are in bold.

  • discourse - considered clitics by some
  • evidentiality/interrogative
  • negation
  • causative person marker
  • object person marker/passive marker
  • STEM:
    • incorporandum
    • applicative
    • ROOT
  • one or more auxiliaries
  • subject+aspect
Discourse markers

Discourse markers are often connecting words for clauses, or particles that display the speaker's emotional reaction to an event or state.

  • bys- = 'gladly', 'great!'
  • boo- = 'alas'
  • yṟ/ṟy- = (softening marker)
Evidentiality affixes

Evidentials mark the source of the speaker's information; a lack of evidential marking signals that the verb is an imperative or a purpose clause. Some other discourse affixes (which are in complementary distribution with evidentials) also go into this slot.

  • i- (before C), r- (before V) = I witnessed or otherwise directly experienced this
  • pyn- = information I obtained from hearsay or am quoting
  • nar- = a third-party source I consider credible
  • me- = my own inference, assumption or subjective opinion
  • hy- (< PTal *səni φī... 'tell me if...') = interrogative (used for both wh-questions and yes-no questions)
  • eb- = if
  • ṯus- = (optative)
Negative/focus affixes

Negation is marked with the negative affix mis- (before V), or mi-/N- (before C), which may alter the verb stem to its incorporating form.

  • Negative: mis-, mi-, N-
Causative person markers

The causative prefixes are used in causative verbs to index the agent causing the action of the object-ROOT-subject complex. The causative person marker comes from forms of the verb ooni 'to do/make' (*oonin sy 'I make it that' > oony- > ony-).

For example:

Ronipicaasym.
/ronipikaːˈsəm/
r-ony-pi-caasy-m
DIR-CAUS.1SG-OBJ.4-eat-PROG.SUBJ.3SG.M
I'm feeding it to him.
Causative affixes
Singular Plural
1 ony- ome-
1 + 2 - onty-
2 ory- ofy-
3 (male) omy- oty-
3 (female) osy-
3 (inanimate) oo-
4 (obviative) opy-
Who? ote-
What? ota-
Object person markers
Object affixes
Singular Plural
1 in- mee-
1 + 2 - bee-
2 ti- hee-
3 (proximate) bi- nee-
4 (obviative) pi-
Whom?/Someone tei-
What?/Something taa-
Applicatives
  • di- = at, in, by
  • hee- = about
  • hu- = benefactive
  • lengy- = malefactive
Subject+TAM markers

Roshterian tenses: present, perfect, imperfect, future

Present indicative
Person Affix -ḡaimian 'I fly' -caasyn "I eat"
1SG -n -ḡaimian -caasyn
2SG -r -ḡaimiar -caasyr
3SG.M -m -ḡaimiam -caasym
3SG.F -s -ḡaimias -caasys
3SG.N -0 -ḡaimi -caas
1EX -me -ḡaimiame -caasyme
1IN -nt -ḡaimiant -caasynt
2PL -f -ḡaimiaf -caasyf
3PL -tu -ḡaimiaw -caasyw
4 -p -ḡaimip -caasyp
Who? -te -ḡaimite -caasyte
What? -ta -ḡaimita -caasyta

Habitual indicative:

Reduplicate the progressive indicative with Ce-. (the reduplicant can be irregular)

Past indicative
Person -ḡaimian "I fly" -caasyn "I eat"
1SG -ḡaimidi -ceesti
2SG -ḡaimivi -ceesyvi
3SG.M -ḡaimimi -ceesymi
3SG.F -ḡaimiast -ceesyst
3SG.N -ḡaimias -ceesys
1EX -ḡaimimer -ceesymer
1IN -ḡaiminter -ceesynter
2PL -ḡaimifer -ceesyfer
3PL -ḡaimiaw -ceesyw
4 -ḡaimiap -ceesyyp
Who? -ḡaimiate -ceesyyte
What? -ḡaimiata -ceesyyta


Voice affixes
  • ṯy- = mediopassive (< "body, self")
  • ab/aa- = reciprocal
Auxiliaries
  • -dunqan: 'I must/have to' (negated: 'I don't have to')
  • -peren: 'I can/I'm able to'
  • -ṯysin: 'I may/I have permission to' (negated: 'I must not')
  • -xan: 'I will' (future tense)
  • -dawan: 'I want to' (future tense)

Copula

To express "is a [NOUN]" or "is [ADJ]", the copula -(l)uan is suffixed to the bare stem of X; X plus the copula then goes to the normal stem slot for purposes of verb inflection. The noun itself doesn't go into the plural even when the subject is plural.

Lamebaaṯuu.
la-me-baaṯ-uu
merely-INFERRED-child-COP.PRES.3PL
In my opinion, they are mere children.
Hyroṉḏuar, hyteituar?
hy-roṉḏ-uar, hy-teit-uar
Q-man-COP.2SG, Q-child-COP.PRES.2SG
Are you a man or a boy?

When the copula is added on nouns without an evidential, it emphasizes the noun or simply indicates the tense of an action (either past or non-past).

Metuumi bastaim.
me-tuu-mi bast-aim
INFERRED-do-3SG.M.PFV king-COP.PST.3SG.M
It was apparently the king who did it. / The king apparently did it.
Inflection

The copula is suppletive; it also has only non-past indicative and past indicative forms.

Non-past copula
Person Affix
1SG -(l)uan
2SG -(l)uar
3SG.M -(l)uam
3SG.F -(l)uas
3SG.N -(l)ua
1EX -(l)umec
1IN -(l)uant
2PL -(l)uaf
3PL -(l)uu
4 -(l)uap
Who? -(l)ute
What? -(l)uta

Past copula
Person Affix
1SG -(q)ain
2SG -(q)air
3SG.M -(q)aim
3SG.F -(q)ais
3SG.N -(q)ai
1EX -(q)aimec
1IN -(q)aint
2PL -(q)aif
3PL -(q)aitu
4 -(q)aip
Who? -(q)aite
What? -(q)aita


Nouns

Nouns are marked with a singular-plural distinction, and may also take possessive suffixes. However, the lemma form of a noun is typically its combining form, which is the incorporated form of a noun and is also used to form possessed forms and compounds. Unlike Thensarian, Roshterian lost the Proto-Talmic grammatical gender; gendered pronouns and verb affixes no longer mark grammatical gender, but natural gender (as in Naquian). There is no definite or indefinite article.

The plural form is inherited from the Proto-Talmic reduplicated collective, and is often formed by reduplication. Example: bleit /blɛit/ 'woman', bebleit /bɛˈblɛit/ 'women'. Some irregularities may be present due to the retention of the original single consonant in the reduplicant, as opposed to the stem-initial cluster where the consonants interacted to produce new consonants and clusters.

weiny- 'brother'
Combining Singular Plural
weiny- wein uwein
Possessed forms
Number→
Possessor↓ 		Singular Plural
my weinyn uweinyn
thy weinys uweinys
his (3) weinyty uweinyty
her (3) weinytii uweinytii
its (3) weinyt uweinyt
our (exc) weinym uweinym
our (inc) weinyx uweinyx
your (pl) weinyc uweinyc
their (3) weinytu uweinytu
(4) weinypi uweinypi

doiro- 'bird'
Combining Singular Plural
doiro- doir ledoir
Possessed forms
Number→
Possessor↓ 		Singular Plural
my doiron ledoiron
thy doiros ledoiros
his doiroty ledoiroty
her doirotii ledoirotii
its doirot ledoirot
our (exc) doirom ledoirom
our (inc) doirox ledoirox
your (pl) doiroc ledoiroc
their doirotu ledoirotu
(4) doiropi ledoiropi

ṟiidi- 'knife'
Combining Singular Plural
ṟiidi- ṟiid qeṟiid
Possessed forms
Number→
Possessor↓ 		Singular Plural
my ṟiidin qeṟiidin
thy ṟiidis qeṟiidis
his ṟiidity qeṟiidity
her ṟiiditii qeṟiiditii
its ṟiidit qeṟidit
our (exc) ṟiidim qeṟiidim
our (inc) ṟiidix qeṟiidix
your (pl) ṟiidic qeṟiidic
their ṟiiditu qeṟiiditu
(4) ṟiidipi qeṟiidipi

qutri- 'blood'
Combining Singular Plural
qutri- qutri qequtri
et sim.
bondi- 'person'
Combining Singular Plural
bondi- bondi bebondi


Demonstrative suffixes

Deixis or demonstratives (such as 'this' or 'that') are marked with a suffix added to the combining form of the noun.

  • this: -ma
  • that: -pa

Adjectives

The class of adjectives is actually a small, closed subclass of nouns, usually relating to concrete properties of objects such as shape, color, size, and texture, and relatively permanent characteristics of people. Note that most English adjectives, like "cozy", "active", "incendiary", ..., are expressed in Roshterian by other means such as inflected verbs or verb phrases.

Predicative adjectives work the same way as predicative nouns in that they must take the copula.

Attributive adjectives are compounded after the noun.

A more analytic construction can also be used: the 3rd person singular inanimate possessive suffix is added to the noun, and the adjective comes after.

  • bryn 'red': Ibrynua hoget. 'The apple is red.'; hootibryn or hootit bryn 'red apple'
  • pant 'big': Ipantua huaryn. 'My house is big.'; huarypant or huaryt pant 'big house'

Prepositions

Prepositions are inflected for person similarly to nouns. [Should they be cliticized? Probably]

  • di- = 'in'
  • bel- = 'from'
  • en = for
  • bar = towards
  • nai = with (instrumental)

Pronouns

Personal pronouns

Independent pronouns are not used except for emphasis.

Singular Plural
1 nia iam
1 + 2 pynd
2 weer typi
3 (masculine) hum sia
3 (feminine) hii
3 (inanimate) ha
4 (obviative) pii

Demonstrative pronouns

Independent demonstratives look like:

  • this: amac
  • that: apac

Interrogatives

Derivational morphology

  • bo- = associated person
    • bopenicili-, bopenicili /bɔpɛnɪkɪˈlɪ/ = penicillin player
    • blei- = -ess, feminine counterpart to bo- (not common in modern Roshterian)
  • -ait (not productive) = forms adjectives
  • [NOUN]-ṯobyn = to resemble a NOUN (the noun is incorporated)

Syntax

Roshterian is a verb-initial, head-marking polysynthetic language. Verbs take both subject and object affixes, and features complex morphophonemic alternations [much of which is inherited from Old Roshterian]. Where Roshterian deviates from typical Talman typology are features such as obviation, noun incorporation and evidential marking, making Roshterian resemble Native American languages such as Blackfoot or Ojibwe.

Itiraḏan.
I-ti-raḏa-n
EVID_DIR-2SG.OBJ-love-1SG.SUBJ
I love you.

Possession

"X of Y" = X-3SG Y or X-Y (e.g. weinyti boclofabim 'the Clofabian's brother' or ganut huar = 'the color of the house')

Obviation

Applicatives

Applicative affixes make a verb's prepositional or oblique object into its direct object (cf. be- in English bemoan 'to complain about'). Applicatives are as much a stylistic or pragmatic choice as syntactic (see below) or lexical. Some verbs may use multiple applicative prefixes, when they do so is difficult to predict.

Examples:

Iheeditaicyn raḏi am ḡiaf.
I'm talking about love and hate. (lit. I bespeak love and hate)

Sometimes not using applicatives is preferred, sometimes vice versa:

Ixoorin di Qaaroxṯerim.
'I live in Roshteria.' (lit. I live in Roshteria)
Idixoorin ḡeeliaṉ.
'I live in a city.' (lit. I inhabit a city)


Applicatives are not only useful for emphasizing or topicalizing the oblique argument but in fact are necessary for certain syntactic constructions (and for just sounding natural). When an applicative is used, the original direct object (when used) takes the instrumental preposition nai.

For example:

Ṯimylt impubri pergofaaṟidi nai maaqex?
Where is the shelf where I put the spices? [lit. that I beput with the spices]
Apacua rymbi peteehoḏidi nai ṯas.
/apaˈkuə rəmˈbi pɛteːhoɖɪˈdɪ nai ˈʈas/
apac-ua rymbi ped-hee-hoḏia-di nai ṯas
that-COP.3SG.N forest NMLZ-APPL.about-draw-1SG.PERF INS picture
That is the forest I drew a picture of. [lit. the forest that I bedrew with a picture]

Clause types

Time clauses

Relative clauses

There are no relative pronouns or resumptive pronouns in Roshterian. Only the gap strategy is available, and only a subject or an object of the relative clause can be a head. This is where applicatives come in handy, as applicatives promote oblique arguments to direct objects, thus allow oblique arguments of a verb to used as relative clause heads.

The relative clause is marked by a nominalizing affix ped-.

Meiḻicort ḡeeliaṉ pedidixoorin.
me-eiḻi-cort-0 ḡeeliaṉ ped-i-di-xoor-in
EVID_SUBJ-heart-embrace-3SG.N city NMLZ-EV.DIR-APP.LOC-live-PRES.1SG
The city that I live in is cozy. (lit. The city that I inhabit embraces the heart.)

Complement clauses

Reason clauses

Purpose clauses

Sample texts

"I don't want to move on from/grow out of simple pleasures."

Tower of Babel

Snake Lemma

Professor Kate Gunzinger proves the Snake Lemma in the film It's My Turn (1980). I'll omit the proof, which is less linguistically interesting. [Most Roshterians prefer to use Eevo terms when discussing higher mathematics anyway.]
Haxupimyṯrut yṟonypinoofer binróþ s, beṉṯylaḡilcoma peeṯypryṉifiaqolip, ḻe?
haxu-pi-myṯru-t yṟ-ony-pi-noo-fer binróþ s ben-ṯy-laḡ-ilcom-a pee-ṯypr-yṉif-iaqoli-ip ḻe
way-4-build-CONST DISC_SOFTEN-CAUS.1SG-4-see-2PL.SUBJ.PERF mathematical_function s, DISC_"should be obvious"-PASS-APPL_TELIC-sow-3SG.N NOMZ-PASS-examine-show-at_first-4 TAG
Let me just show you how to *construct* the map s, which is the fun of the lemma anyhow, okay?
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