Verse:Irta/Judeo-Mandarin/Sketchbook: Difference between revisions

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change vă (past tense auxiliary) to vu
Change relative of auxiliary to ''tă'' (fits better with atá aig > tăģ)
get rid of ř (turn it to r or ș)
t'e ņey bual dum ăn ay = he hit my face
I can just use Englishy phrasal verbs freely in An Yidish, though an yidish speakers might come up with their own
We need more Hivantish
Tsade needs to be an unaspirated affricate
*sin = /s/
*shin = /ʃ/
*zayin = tsade = /ts⁼/
*samekh = /tsʰ/
Dictionary needs to give Cualand forms side by side with Irtan forms (or don't consolidate hiatused vowels in orthography)
Bring pronunciation closer to Gàidhlig, reflecting letters that have gone silent (luath, luaithe = lua, luayă)
Drop final schwa? both ulster and yiddish do that
Drop final schwa? both ulster and yiddish do that


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** tsere chiriq shuruq reduce to i
** tsere chiriq shuruq reduce to i
* But: no *-ir, that changes to -ăr
* But: no *-ir, that changes to -ăr
* -yr > -yăr


Change how f and p are written in the An Yidis Hebrew alphabet
Change how f and p are written in the An Yidis Hebrew alphabet

Latest revision as of 07:09, 5 January 2023

change vă (past tense auxiliary) to vu

Change relative of auxiliary to (fits better with atá aig > tăģ)

get rid of ř (turn it to r or ș)

t'e ņey bual dum ăn ay = he hit my face

I can just use Englishy phrasal verbs freely in An Yidish, though an yidish speakers might come up with their own

We need more Hivantish

Tsade needs to be an unaspirated affricate

  • sin = /s/
  • shin = /ʃ/
  • zayin = tsade = /ts⁼/
  • samekh = /tsʰ/

Dictionary needs to give Cualand forms side by side with Irtan forms (or don't consolidate hiatused vowels in orthography)

Bring pronunciation closer to Gàidhlig, reflecting letters that have gone silent (luath, luaithe = lua, luayă)

Drop final schwa? both ulster and yiddish do that

Vowel reduction in Hebrew loans is fairly complicated:

  • Usually:
    • patach segol qamatz cholam reduce to ă
    • tsere chiriq shuruq reduce to i
  • But: no *-ir, that changes to -ăr
  • -yr > -yăr

Change how f and p are written in the An Yidis Hebrew alphabet

Should a conservative An Yidish dialect have Hebrew lenited tav = the Hiberno English slit fricative

Dialect that rebrackets ăn Idiș as ă Nidiș

Use yud dagesh for ģ? (TibH yud was /J/ when geminated)

change th to h unless result of lenition of t

An Yidis Hebrew can treat yud like a begadkefat consonant in Western Ăn Yidiș

Habitual bi?

ç ģ should be טש תּש

Get rid of initial f (and initial p leniting to f -- can get away with this since initial p is rare in Irish) in Pre-Proto-Ăn Yidiș? or use פ with a superscript ף specifically for the /f/ pronunciation

Should have more dvandva compounds than Yiddish (an Ăn Yidiș-internal innovation)

rederive new verbal nouns from older verbal nouns which are now analyzed as just verbs? (new enough verbs are no longer borrowed as verbal nouns)

maysrăl 'to master' -> maysrăl-ăf 'mastering a skill etc.'

mesdăr 'to master (music production)' -> mesdărăf 'mastering'

Slender lenis r should be r

Segol should be ea in some very old Hebrew loans (mealăch 'king', from */mE:lEx/). Also some cases of tsade reflexing as Proto-Ăn Yidiș /c/, reflecting PSem *D and *Z, e.g. חמץ chomiç

Change conjunctive șe/și to e/i

Accusative marking based on animacy rather than definiteness?

Make "of" t(h)ăģ/t(h)ăg, tagum, tagăd, ... (from *a tá ag 'that is at', cf. Hebrew shel 'that is to')

should be a bit more of a post-Talmud Jewish Aramaic relex

Old genitive functions as definite accusative (articles ăn+L (same rules as feminine nom sg article), nă h-, năn/năm) but ăģ still used for possession? (retaining gender makes more sense that way)

  • Hebrew zero ending nouns get
  • don't worry about Hebrew feminine nouns in f sg gen bc it's clear they are gen sg (e.g. Bhă mi ă leyn nă Tură)

řth is pronounced ș, should they have a spelling reform?

change relative of the auxiliary תּאָ to to א ה- ă h-?

What should the Ăn Yidiș dreidel letters be and what Hebrew mnemonic phrase should they use?

me, tü -> mi, ti

avoid "șua"

vn ending -adh should become -ăg? (-achadh > -ăch)

șe ăr sgoth șin: 'that's why'

h should be he or he mappiq in native words

Qamatz should reduce in unstressed syllables even in native vocab

Bey af șu ney doł șechăd = This too shall pass.

nă Fyoghăn h-Orsi = the Great Old Ones

Chalk up șu X = this is X (like Gàidhlig seo X) to Hebrew influence

To nă ŗołtăn in oț = The stars are right (in place)

chet in Heb loans = χ (Ăn Yidiș Hebrew should have final /h/ pronounced)

Geresh is ׳

Rafe is ֿ

Gàidhlig -chadh VNs correspond to ĂnY -ch

Final aspirated stops realized as gemination (cf. Estonian): אָז oz [odz~ots] 'then' vs אָץ [ots:] 'place'

Update Hebrew script examples

Add ņ in the same places where Gàidhlig has slender nn; e.g. madiņ ~ madainn 'morning'

Hebrew m-, s-, ș- words should be masculine? Or just get rid of gender, șe/și/șin, make mutation lexical like Eevo? (Modern Secular ĂnY) A minimal set: fer [fɛɻ] 'man', fear [feːɻ~feəɻ] 'grass', fier [fiəɻ] 'to bend', fir [fɪɻ] 'very', fuar [fʊəɻ] 'cold'

șu/șin/șud can be used by themselves as pronouns: טע שין De șin? (< *ciod é sin) 'What's that?'

In "X is-the Y" type sentences cu 'who' and de 'what' can be used by itself: Cu tüsă? 'Who are you? (Identify yourself.)' (expecting an answer that is a definite noun) but to make other -sentences into questions you have to use deș: Deș efșăr lum ă zhean bichlál? 'What can I even do?'

sr' > șr (dial. stŗ or ștŗ)

Oy vey <- Nithish wė <- *wai?

Should have less vowel reduction in both native and Hebrew vocab? facłuŗ instead of facłăŗ, șvü'us for Shavuot instead of șvües

Should have a Scottish Gaelic bias in vocab

How to say "daloy"

Fix (later) Hebrew loans

ü from Old Irish ú and other sources

Sound laws (IFDY Ăn Yidiș):

  • ŗeł > ŗoł
  • eal > 'ăł
    • בּייאל'אך byăłăch 'path'
  • ann eann ionn onn unn > on jon ien oan uan (same for -ll and -rr)
  • ainn einn inn oinn uinn > eyn eyn in in in
  • aidh eidh idh oidh uidh > ay ey i ăy i
  • yü > yi (Yüd- is still used in some dialects)

ק ט used for native g d

Semantic drifts

T' ănd iesg byu ă snov inș ănd ișģă = The living fish swims in the water

Compounds later than Proto-Ăn Yidiș are head-initial

și c̦ertüs, și c̦ertüs ă t' orăt o-toaŗ 'Justice, justice you must pursue' (צֶדֶק צֶדֶק תִּרְדֹּף)