Þiudiskon: Difference between revisions

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{{privatelang}}
{{Infobox language
{{Infobox language
|image= Ravenish flag.png
|image= Ravenish flag.png
|imagesize= 250px
|imagesize= 250px
|name= Ravenish  
|name= Old Ravenish  
|nativename=''þiudiskon''
|nativename=''þiudiskon''
|pronunciation= θiu̯.ðiʃ.køn
|pronunciation= θiu̯.ðiʃ.kon
|pronunciation_key = Guide:IPA
|pronunciation_key = w:International Phonetic Alphabet chart
|creator=[[User:Wfeozawra|wfosøra]]
|creator=[[User:Wfeozawra|wfosøra]]
|region=[[w:North Ostrobothnia|North Ostrobothnia]]
|fam1=Indo-European
|fam1=Indo-European
|fam2=Germanic
|fam2=Germanic
|fam3=[[Old Ravenish]]
|fam3=[[Proto-Ravenish]]
|dia1=Standard
|dia2=Formal
|dia2=Colloquial
|dia2=Standard
|dia3=Colloquial
|script1= Latn
|script1= Latn
|ancestor= [[Old Ravenish]] (attested)
|ancestor= [[Proto-Ravenish]] (Sparsely attested)
|dia1=Formal
|familycolor=indo-european
|dia2=Colloquial
|cws=MCORV
|-
|-
|notice=IPA
|notice=IPA
}}
}}


'''Ravenish''' ([[w:endonym|autoglossonym]]: ''þiudiskon''; <small>Ravenish:&nbsp;</small><span class="nowrap" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" style="font-family:Gentium,'DejaVu Sans','Segoe UI',sans-serif">[[IPA for Ravenish|[θiu̯.ðiʃ.køn&#93;]]</span>) is a [[w:Germanic language|Germanic language]], with strong influence from [[w:Finnish|Finnish]]. It is the result of a prolonged contact among members of both groups after the Ravenish tribe migrated to the area that is now [[w:North Ostrobothnia|North Ostrobothnia]]. These connections slowly formed the modern language, which, under influence of Finnish for centuries, led to the innovation of several new forms, such as a conditional verb form and definiteness distinctions in nouns.
'''Ravenish''' ([[w:endonym|autoglossonym]]: ''þiudiskon''; [[Modern Ravenish]] ''aldon þiudiskon''; <small>Ravenish:</small>[[w:ipq chart|[θiu̯.ðiʃ.kon]]) is a [[w:Germanic language|Germanic language]], with strong influence from [[w:Finnish|Finnish]].  
 
While its vocabulary derives for the most part from [[w:Proto-Germanic|Proto-Germanic]], Finnish influence is most notable in its phonology and its grammar.


==Introduction==
==Introduction==
Goals
===Goals===
* Fun
* Fun
* Learn more Germanic
* Learn more Germanic
Setting
* Learn more Finnish
===Setting===
* [[w:North Ostrobothnia|North Ostrobothnia]]
* [[w:North Ostrobothnia|North Ostrobothnia]]
Inspiration
===Inspiration===
* Finnish
* Finnish
* Proto-Germanic
* Proto-Germanic
Line 65: Line 65:
|-
|-
! /kʷ/
! /kʷ/
| style="border-right: 0;" | q || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | kw || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
|-
! /z, ʒ/
! /z, ʒ/
| style="border-right: 0;" | z || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | z || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
! /ʀ/
| style="border-right: 0;" | ʀ/ŕ || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
|-
! /χ/
! /χ/
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! colspan="2" | [[w:post-Alveolar consonant|post-<br/>alveolar]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:post-Alveolar consonant|post-<br/>alveolar]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:Palatal consonant|palatal]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:Palatal consonant|palatal]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:Velar consonant|Velar]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:Velar consonant|Velar]]<br/>/[[w:Uvular consonant|Uvular]]
! colspan="2" | [[w:Uvular consonant|Uvular]]
|-
|-
! [[w:Nasal consonant|Nasal]]
! [[w:Nasal consonant|Nasal]]
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| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" | ([[w:Voiced velar nasal|ŋ]])¹, ŋʷ²
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" | ([[w:Voiced velar nasal|ŋ]])¹, ŋʷ²
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
|-
! [[w:stop consonant|Stop]]
! [[w:stop consonant|Stop]]
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| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless velar stop|k]], kʷ || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless velar stop|k]], kʷ || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
|-
! [[w:fricative consonant|Fricative]]
! [[w:fricative consonant|Fricative]]
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| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless alveolar sibilant|s]], sʷ || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced alveolar sibilant|z]]
| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless alveolar sibilant|s]], sʷ || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced alveolar sibilant|z]]
| style="border-right: 0;" | ([[w:Voiceless postalveolar fricative|ʃ]])³ || style="border-left: 0;" | ([[w:Voiced postalveolar fricative|ʒ]])⁴
| style="border-right: 0;" | ([[w:Voiceless postalveolar fricative|ʃ]])³ || style="border-left: 0;" | ([[w:Voiced postalveolar fricative|ʒ]])⁴
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless uvular fricative|χ]], χʷ || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced uvular fricative|ʁ]], ʁʷ
| style="border-right: 0;" | [[w:Voiceless uvular fricative|χ]], χʷ || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced uvular fricative|ʁ]], ʁʷ
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| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced palatal approximant|j]]
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced palatal approximant|j]]
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
|-
|-
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| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" |
| style="border-right: 0;" | || style="border-left: 0;" | [[w:Voiced uvular trill|ʀ]]
|}
|}


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# allophone of /n/ before /kʷ/
# allophone of /n/ before /kʷ/
# allophone of /s/ before velars and at word ends
# allophone of /s/ before velars and at word ends
# allophone of /z/ before velars and at word ends
# allophone of /z/ before velars and at word ends, in modern colloquial forms this has roticized to /r/


===Vowels===
===Vowels===
Line 328: Line 319:
===Morphophonology===
===Morphophonology===
==Morphology==
==Morphology==
Take '''''ALL''''' forms with '<sup>?</sup>' with caution, the proto-Germanic form is unknown so this is me doing very, VERY basic comparisons to figure out a '''Possible''' form.
===Pronouns===
===Pronouns===
{{template:þiudiskon PersPrn}}
{{template:þiudiskon PersPrn}}
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|+ Standard personal pronouns
|+ Standard/colloquial personal pronouns
|-
|-
! colspan=3 | !! Nominative !! Accusative !! Genitive !! Dative
! colspan=3 | !! Nominative !! Accusative
|-
|-
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#first person|first<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#first person|first<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
| {{term|mïk}} || {{term|muk}} || {{term|mukëraz}} || {{term|mukiz}}
| {{term|ik}} || {{term|mik}}
|- valign="top"
|- valign="top"
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | dual
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | dual
| {{term|ïnk}} || {{term|unk}} || {{term|unkëraz}} || {{term|unkiz}}
| {{term|wit}} || {{term|unk}}
|-
|-
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | plural
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | plural
| {{term|ïns}} || {{term|uns}} || {{term|unsëraz}} || {{term|unsiz}}
| {{term|wiz}} || {{term|uns}}
|-
|-
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#second person|second<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#second person|second<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
| {{term|þïk}} || {{term|þuk}} || {{term|þukëraz}} || {{term|þukiz}}
| {{term|þuu}} || {{term|þik}}
|-
|-
! colspan=2 | dual
! colspan=2 | dual
| {{term|ïnkw}} || {{term|unkw}} || {{term|unkwëraz}} || {{term|unkwiz}}
| {{term|jut}} || {{term|ïnkw}}
|-
|-
! colspan=2 | plural
! colspan=2 | plural
| {{term|ïzw}} || {{term|uzw}} || {{term|uzwëraz}} || {{term|uzwiz}}
| {{term|juuz}} || {{term|izwiz}}
|-
|-
! rowspan=6 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#third person|third<br>person]] !! rowspan=3 | singular !! masculine
! rowspan=6 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#third person|third<br>person]] !! rowspan=3 | singular !! masculine
| {{term|ïz}} || {{term|uz}} || rowspan=3 | {{term|es}} || rowspan=3 | {{term|ymmäi}}
| {{term|iz}} || {{term|ïnon}}
|-
|-
! feminine
! feminine
| {{term|sïï}} || {{term|suu}}
| {{term|sii}} || {{term|ijon}}
|-
|-
! neuter
! neuter
| {{term|ït}} || {{term|ut}}
| {{term|it}} || {{term|it}}
|-
|-
! rowspan=3 | plural !! masculine
! rowspan=3 | plural !! masculine
| {{term|ïïz}} || {{term|uuz}} || rowspan=3 | {{term|ezöön}} || rowspan=3 | {{term|ymäz}}
| {{term|iiz}} || {{term|ïnz}}
|-
|-
! feminine
! feminine
| {{term|ïjääz}} || {{term|ujaaz}}
| {{term|ijaaz}} || {{term|ijaz}}
|-
|-
! neuter
! neuter
| {{term|ïjö}} || {{term|ujo}}
| {{term|ijo}} || {{term|ijo}}
|-
|-
! rowspan=1 colspan=3 | reflexive
! rowspan=1 colspan=3 | reflexive
| {{term|se}} || {{term|së}} || {{term|sëëraz}} || {{term|sëiz}}
| {{term|se}} || {{term|sik}}
|-
|-
|}
|}


The standard form taught to foreigners, understood by everyone, like MSA where almost no natives actually speak it.
Genitive is regularized to the suffix '-eräz'/'-ëraz', Dative is lost
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|+ Colloquial personal pronouns
|-
! colspan=3 | !! Nominative !! Accusative !! Genitive !! Dative
|-
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#first person|first<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
| {{term|mïk}} || {{term|muk}} || {{term|mukëraz}} || {{term|mukiz}}
|- valign="top"
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | dual
| {{term|ïnk}} || {{term|unk}} || {{term|unkëraz}} || {{term|unkiz}}
|-
! colspan=2 valign="middle" | plural
| {{term|ïns}} || {{term|uns}} || {{term|unsëraz}} || {{term|unsiz}}
|-
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#second person|second<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
| {{term|þïk}} || {{term|þuk}} || {{term|þukëraz}} || {{term|þukiz}}
|-
! colspan=2 | dual
| {{term|ïnkw}} || {{term|unkw}} || {{term|unkwëraz}} || {{term|unkwiz}}
|-
! colspan=2 | plural
| {{term|ïzw}} || {{term|uzw}} || {{term|uzwëraz}} || {{term|uzwiz}}
|-
! rowspan=3 | [[wikt:Appendix:Glossary#third person|third<br>person]] !! colspan=2 | singular
| {{term|ïz}} || {{term|uz}} || {{term|es}} || {{term|ymmäi}}
|-
! colspan=2 | dual
| {{term|ït}} || {{term|ut}} || {{term|ezäz}} || {{term|ezöi}}
|-
! colspan=2 | plural
| {{term|ïïz}} || {{term|uuz}} || {{term|ezöön}} || {{term|ymäz}}
|-
! colspan=3 | reflexive
| {{term|se}} || {{term|së}} || {{term|sëëraz}} || {{term|sëiz}}
|-
|}


The day-to-day form.
===Nouns===
Stems are named in accordance with their PG equivalent.
====a stems====
====ō stems====
====ī/jō stems====
====i stems====
====u stems====
====an stems====
====ōn stems====
====īn stems====
====r stems====
====z stems====
====Root nouns and consonant stems====


[[Category:þiudiskon]] <noinclude>[[Category:þiudiskon templates]]</noinclude>
===Verbs===
===Adjectives and Determiners===
===Adverbs===
===Numbers===


==Syntax==
==Syntax==
Line 442: Line 412:
| Old English || Hƿæt! Ƿē Gār-Dena in geār‐dagum þēod‐cyninga ⁠þrym gefrūnon, hu ðā æðelingas ellen fremedon.
| Old English || Hƿæt! Ƿē Gār-Dena in geār‐dagum þēod‐cyninga ⁠þrym gefrūnon, hu ðā æðelingas ellen fremedon.
|-
|-
| Ravenish || hwat! wiʀ gaizdanjoon ïn järändägämäʀ þeïdöökïnïngöön þrumjaʀ gafrëëgun, hwo þo aþulungoʀ aljanan framidëëdun
| Ravenish<br/>(Formal) || hwat! wiz gaizdanjoon ïn järändägämäz þeïdöökïnïngöön þrumjaz gafrëëgun, hwo þo aþulungoz aljanan framidëëdun
|-
|-
| Pronunciation</br>(Standard) || {{IPA|/χʷɑt wiʀ ʁɑi̯z.ðɑn.joːn yn jæ.ræn.ðæ.ʁæ.mæʀ θey̯.ðøː.ky.nyn.ʁøːn θrum.jɑʀ ʁɑ.frɤː.ʁun χʷo θo ɑ.θu.lun.ʁɑːʀ ɑl.jɑ.nɑn frɑ.mi.ðɤː.ðun/}}
| Pronunciation<br/>(Formal) || {{IPA|/χʷɑt wiʒ ʁɑi̯z.ðɑn.joːn yn jæ.ræn.ðæ.ʁæ.mæʒ θey̯.ðøː.ky.nyn.ʁøːn θrum.jɑʒ ʁɑ.frɤː.ʁun χʷo θo ɑ.θu.lun.ʁɑːʒ ɑl.jɑ.nɑn frɑ.mi.ðɤː.ðun/}}
|}
|}


==Other resources==
==Other resources==
[[Swadesh for þiudiskon|Swadesh]]
* [[þiudiskon/Swadesh|Swadesh]]
 
* [[þiudiskon/Phrasebook|Phrases]]
[[þiudiskon/Phrasebook|Phrases]]
* [[:Category:þiudiskon lemmas|lemmas]]




Latest revision as of 02:07, 1 November 2024


Old Ravenish
þiudiskon
Ravenish flag.png
Pronunciation[θiu̯.ðiʃ.kon]
Created bywfosøra
Indo-European
Early form
Proto-Ravenish (Sparsely attested)
ConWorkShopMCORV
This article contains IPA phonetic symbols. Without proper rendering support, you may see question marks, boxes, or other symbols instead of Unicode characters. For an introductory guide on IPA symbols, see Help:IPA.

Ravenish (autoglossonym: þiudiskon; Modern Ravenish aldon þiudiskon; Ravenish:[θiu̯.ðiʃ.kon) is a Germanic language, with strong influence from Finnish.

Introduction

Goals

  • Fun
  • Learn more Germanic
  • Learn more Finnish

Setting

Inspiration

  • Finnish
  • Proto-Germanic
  • My love for old Germanic languages

Etymology

The language name derives from the same source as German Deutsch, þiudiskaz. The English name is in reference to a cultural aspect of the people, their unusually large reverence for Ravens, they place an oddly high importance on Ravens even for a Germanic tribe.

Phonology

Orthography

Orthography
IPA Letter
/ɑ, ɑː/ a, aa
/v/ b
/ʁ/ g
/ð/ d
/e, eː/ e, ee
/ɤ, ɤː/ ë, ëë
/kʷ/ kw
/z, ʒ/ z
/χ/ h
/θ/ þ
/i, iː/ i, ii
/y, yː/ ï, ïï
/k/ k
/l/ l
/l̥/ hl
/m/ m
/n/ n
/j/ j
/u, uː/ u, uu
/p/ p
/æ, æː/ ä, ää
/r/ r
/r̥/ hr
/s, ʃ/ s
/t/ t
/w/ w
/f/ f
/χʷ/ hw
/o, oː/ o, oo
/ø, øː/ ö, öö

Consonants

Consonants have remained relatively close to Proto-Germanic, except for the few stops that had fricative allophones, these shifted fully to fricatives, the opposite of all other Germanic langs, the Velar fricatives also shifted to Uvular.

Consonant phonemes
Labial Dental alveolar post-
alveolar 		palatal Velar
/Uvular
Nasal m n (ŋ)¹, ŋʷ²
Stop p t̪, t̪ʷ k, kʷ
Fricative f v θ ð s, sʷ z (ʃ)³ (ʒ)⁴ χ, χʷ ʁ, ʁʷ
Approximant w l̥ l j
Trill r̥ r
  1. allophone of /n/ before /k/
  2. allophone of /n/ before /kʷ/
  3. allophone of /s/ before velars and at word ends
  4. allophone of /z/ before velars and at word ends, in modern colloquial forms this has roticized to /r/

Vowels

Vowels divert from PG more than the consonants, they've shifted closer to Finnish, also gaining harmony from Finnish.

Vowel phonemes
Front Back
unrounded rounded unrounded rounded
short long short long short long short long
Close i iː y yː u uː
mid e eː ø øː ɤ ɤː o oː
Open æ æː ɑ ɑː

Diphthongs

Diphthongs Ending with /i/ Ending with /u/ Ending with /y/ Opening
Starting with /ɑ/ ⟨ai⟩ [ɑi̯] ⟨au⟩ [ɑu̯]
Starting with /æ/ ⟨äi⟩ [æi̯] ⟨äy⟩ [æy̯]
Starting with /o/ ⟨oi⟩ [oi̯] ⟨ou⟩ [ou̯]
Starting with /e/ ⟨ei⟩ [ei̯] ⟨eu⟩ [eu̯] ⟨ey⟩ [ey̯]
Starting with /ø/ ⟨öi⟩ [øi̯] ⟨öy⟩ [øy̯]
Starting with /u/ ⟨ui⟩ [ui̯] ⟨uo⟩ [uo̯]
Starting with /i/ ⟨iu⟩ [iu̯] ⟨iy⟩ [iy̯] ⟨ie⟩ [ie̯]

Sound Changes from OR

Overlong /ɑ/ to /æ/, overlong /e/ to /ɤ/

Prosody

Stress

Stress, like in PG, still lies solely on the first syllable unless prefixed, where stress moves with the root word.

Intonation

Phonotactics

Morphophonology

Morphology

Take ALL forms with '?' with caution, the proto-Germanic form is unknown so this is me doing very, VERY basic comparisons to figure out a Possible form.

Pronouns

Formal personal pronouns
Nominative Accusative Genitive Dative
first
person		 singular ik mik mïïnäz miz
dual wit unk unkëraz unkiz
plural wiz uns unsëraz unsiz
second
person		 singular þuu þik þïïnäz þiz
dual jut ïnkw ïnkweräz ïnkwiz
plural juuz izwiz izweräz izwiz
third
person		 singular masculine iz ïnön es ïmmäi
feminine sii iijon ezäz ezöi
neuter it it es ïmmäi
plural masculine iiz ïnz ezöön ïmäz
feminine ijääz ijaaz ezöön ïmäz
neuter ijo ijo ezöön ïmäz
reflexive se sik sïïnäz siz

The form used in formal situations by natives and highly fluent speakers.

Standard/colloquial personal pronouns
Nominative Accusative
first
person		 singular ik mik
dual wit unk
plural wiz uns
second
person		 singular þuu þik
dual jut ïnkw
plural juuz izwiz
third
person		 singular masculine iz ïnon
feminine sii ijon
neuter it it
plural masculine iiz ïnz
feminine ijaaz ijaz
neuter ijo ijo
reflexive se sik

Genitive is regularized to the suffix '-eräz'/'-ëraz', Dative is lost

Nouns

Stems are named in accordance with their PG equivalent.

a stems

ō stems

ī/jō stems

i stems

u stems

an stems

ōn stems

īn stems

r stems

z stems

Root nouns and consonant stems

Verbs

Adjectives and Determiners

Adverbs

Numbers

Syntax

Constituent order

The word order is mostly free, the base order is SOV, but this is subject to change when importance needs to be stressed on one word.

Noun phrase

Verb phrase

Sentence phrase

Dependent clauses

Example texts

Beowulf Sentence 1

Language Sentence 1 of Beowulf
English Indeed (or 'Yes!')! We of the Spear-Danes, in days old, had our great kings who discovered the glory of what that man's courage could do.
Old English Hƿæt! Ƿē Gār-Dena in geār‐dagum þēod‐cyninga ⁠þrym gefrūnon, hu ðā æðelingas ellen fremedon.
Ravenish
(Formal)		 hwat! wiz gaizdanjoon ïn järändägämäz þeïdöökïnïngöön þrumjaz gafrëëgun, hwo þo aþulungoz aljanan framidëëdun
Pronunciation
(Formal)		 /χʷɑt wiʒ ʁɑi̯z.ðɑn.joːn yn jæ.ræn.ðæ.ʁæ.mæʒ θey̯.ðøː.ky.nyn.ʁøːn θrum.jɑʒ ʁɑ.frɤː.ʁun χʷo θo ɑ.θu.lun.ʁɑːʒ ɑl.jɑ.nɑn frɑ.mi.ðɤː.ðun/

Other resources

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