User:IlL/Spare pages 1/4

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IlL/Spare pages 1/4 (IlL/Spare pages 1/4: An dhobhâdhaigh Cobhocham) is a Wiobic language. It has a large number of click consonants, and is a monosyllabic tonal language with fusional morphology using mutations and tone changes.

Numbers

  • AW: va:m, *dɛɧɐ, naɐk, mu:l, ze:lɪɧ, ʃtuom, ʀu:t, lɛɐts, pfaɐp, kioɐ
  • Pre-Kurmo-Schnüher: va:m, dɪɧɐ, nɛɐk, mu:l, ze:ləɧ, ʃtuom, ʀu:t, lɛɐts, pfɛɐp, kioɐ
  • vˠa:m, dʲəɧ-S, nʲa:k, mʷo:l, zʲe:ləɧ, tʰʷwəm, ʀʷo:t, lʲats, pfʲa:p, kʲʷa:
  • vˠa:m, dʲəɧ-S, nʲa:k, mʷo:l, zʲe:ləɧ, tʰʷwəm, vˠo:t, lʲatʰ, pʰʲa:p, pʲa:

we need tones!

lʲatʰ->lʲat(breathy)
9 and 10 sound similar
ok let's try tʰ > t(breathy)

_Cʰ -> _C(breathy)
yes

_ɧ -> _h -> _(breathy)
yes
maybe not p-celticization?

final k -> glottalization

we should have that

but final p -> w-glide!

9 -> pʰʲa:w

or pʰʲa:wʔ

this is so fun
vˠa:m, dʲə̤-S, nʲa:ʔ, mʷo:l, zʲe̤:l, tʰʷwəm, vˠo:ʔ, lʲa̤ʔ, pʰʲa:wʔ, kʲʷa:
i don't want final plosivess to diasppear yet!
i need them for sino-korean gib

yes

vˠa:m, dʲə̤-S, nʲa:k, mʷo:l, zʲe̤:l, tʰʷwəm, vˠo:t, lʲa̤t, pʰʲa:p, kʲʷa:
let me look at what vowel phonemes we had before slenderization
ɪ i: ʏ y: u:
ə
ɛ e: œ ø: o:
a:
au ai ay iu io uo yø
should au ai ay front to ɛu ɛi ɛy?

perhaps

looks abɛut right
actually maybe not
we need some "plain" consonants

why?????
for some balance?
au ai ay all merge into ɐː

let's say au->ɛ:, ai->ɑ: as in australian or cockney(ish)
ai, ay > a:

yes
ɪ i: ʏ y: u:
ə
ɛ e: œ ø: o:
ɛ: œ
a:
iu io uo yø
should i have œ: < ay?

yes!

symmetry!
ɪ i: ʏ y: u:
ə
ɛ e: œ ø: o:
ɛ: œ:
a:
iu io uo yø

btw Californian English looks like it has /y/ and no /u/
so we're now at the "oddball accent of german"-stage

yes

i think now is a good time to slenderize!
yes

ɪ -> ʲə, i: -> ʲə:, ʏ -> ʲʷə, y: -> ʲʷə:, u: -> ʷə:...
what should the semi-vertical vowel system look like?

a:->ˠa:
a 3-level system?

fleibenschwankenschraft
with a ə ï

that looks good
so pre-cuatham:
ɪ i: ʏ y: u:
ə
e: ø: o:
ɛ ɛ: œ œ:
a:
iu io uo yø

ɪ i: ʏ y: u: -> ʲï ʲï: ʲʷï ʲʷï: ʷï:
old cuatham:
jɨ jɨj jwɨ jwɨj wɨw

better than my proposal

let's continue

ə is just ə
e: ø: o: > jəj jwəj wəw

yes

  • middle chinese intensifies*


ɛ ɛ: œ œ: -> ja jai jwa jwai
a: -> a:

or jwaw?
a: > a:

iu io uo yø -> jɨw, jəw, wəw, jwəj?
jɨ, jə, wə, jwə

yes i can feel the middle chinese

so i and iu merge?
iu > jɨw
what does final -r do now?
fleibenschwankenschraft...
-w -j replaced w/ -a?

perhaps

with a subsequent sandhi

ɨa,əa-> ə:, aa->a:
this is pretty convenient as a, eo, eu are common in sino-korean

what? the sandhi?
the vertical vowel system
tho i also need -yu(C), -yo(C)

jɨw, jəw!
i can get them from jw-
?
ok

CjɨwC->CyuC
yes

we still haven't gone over uo, üö and io
we have: iu io uo yø -> jɨw, jə, wə, jwə
so:
va:m, dəɧɐ, nɛɐk, mu:l, ze:ləɧ, ʃtuom, ʀu:t, lɛɐts, pfɛɐp, kioɐ
va:m, dəɧ-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, ʃtwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
the language should split at this stage or soon after

yes!

well it was descher in early curmian
sorry

va:m, djəɧ-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, ʃtwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
either german is the mother of all languages
or it's vietnamese

or wakashan

or clicky polynesian

(from a zulian perspective)
ʃC > Cʰ at this stage
va:m, djəɧ-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
forgot
va:m, djə̤ɧ-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
va:m, djə̤-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
what about mutations caused by unstressed prefixes
i think they should be dropped before final endings are dropped
be-, ge-, ger- lenites
en-, wen- eclipses
des- aspirates
let's work the effects out

then when you lenite be-, you actually get bhe- (pronounced)

  • gussnish intensifies*

sino-korean but with mutations, tone and gender is so funny

i can see you're more focused on Schnüher grin emoticon
b > v
d > dh (fric)
g > gh

that's pretty much gussnish
p > f
t > þ
k > x
dh > gh?
we're still at the "old irish" stage

irish/elephant gaelic

th -> h

dh -> gh
the following consonants can occur initially in late pre-old cuatham:
m n
p t ! k ʔ
b d g! g
ph th !h kh
f s h
v z
l j ʀ
right before prefixes trigger initial mutations
m
seimhius to ṽ
uru's to m
aspirates to mʰ
n
seimhius to n
urus to n
aspirates to nʰ
p
seimhius to f
urus to b
aspirates to pʰ
t
seimhius to θ
urus to d
aspsirates to tʰ
forgot ɧ as a possible initial fricative
!
seimhius to ɧ
urus to g!
aspirates to !ʰ
k
seimhius to x
urus to g
aspirates to kʰ
b
seimhius to v
urus to m
aspirates to bʰ?
b shouldn't aspirate unlike in Middle Wiobian

or An Bhl grin emoticon
b
seimhius to v
urus to m
d
seimhius to ð
urus to n
g!
seimhius to ɧ̬
urus to ŋ!
g
seimhius to ɣ
urus to ŋ
ph th !h kh
seimhius to p t ! k (!)
blaoighniúil
ph th !h kh
urus to m̊ n̊ ŋ̊! ŋ̊
sorry not blaoighniuil
seimhiu: ph > p > f
h drops out entirely
f s
seimhius to h h
urus to v z
v z
seimhius to ʔ ʔ
l j ʀ do not mutate
oops maybe i should have aspirated hl hj hr?
l j r
aspirate to hl hj hr
and v z aspirates to f s
ɧ seimhius to h and urus to ɧ̬
ɧ̬ seimhius to to ʔ and aspirates to ɧ
ʔ urus to n
and aspirates to h!
ok so what inventory do i have now
m̊ n̊ ŋ̊! ŋ̊
m n ŋ! ŋ
p t ! k ʔ
b d g! g
ph th !h kh
f s ɧ x h
ṽ v z ɧ̬ ɣ
l̊ j̊ ʀ̊
l j ʀ

this is "old cuatham"
pʰ tʰ !ʰ kʰ are pinyined p̂ t̂ ŧ̂ k̂

ĉ you mean
yes sorry
p̂ t̂ ŧ̂ ĉ

or:

use pr tr ŧr cr
i could derive aspirates from Cr!

as Cuatham has no initial consonant clusters
or maybe not?

you don't have to change the diachronics
r blocks medials from forming

i just picked something irishy
yes I could do that

because ŧ̂ is a little heavy on the diacritics
phr thr ŧhr chr
bpr dtr đŧr gcr?
bpr dtr đŧr gcr actually represetn voiceless nasals

yes

i don't know why i didn't think of that idea before
that's funny
but i'm adopting the idea anyway because irish

yes

also because nobody really knows what <r> is in Wiob

it should be the in universe orthography!
well <r> *is* sometimes /r/
Reber = ráp

but not always

that's why r could mean /r/ in Cuatham

in isolation
Schnueher uses Wiob orthography while Cuatham uses the irishy one

yes
because German read like Sino-Korean

or you could have Irish read as Sino-Korean tongue emoticon
that's why Hussmauchian conlangers like to do funny things with r
or avoid it
anyway
the language splits after slenderization?

yes!
I want to drop final plosives in cuatham while retaining them in schnueher

yes

so here are the numbers again:

va:m, djə̤-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
cuatham splits from schnueher by...
clicky clicky clicky!

what do you think abot -p -> -w?

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

with all the !'s pronounced
yes, -p > -w in cuatham

-t just disappears
yes
or becomes -j?

-k -> -j

actually
hence -abh/-aigh?

final
p/jp/wp -> w/j/w
t/jt/wt -> Ø/j/w
k/jk/wk -> j/j/w

yes
yes

final -ŧ?
> Ø/j/w

final -l?
retained

final m, n, and ng are retained
yes

unless you want m->n as in mandarin
nope
Cuatham!

yes

also Ŧúabh Teatham Ŧathaigh
should I have Cl- for /Cw-/?
then what about /Chw-/

there's a problem
no... i don't think I want it

trbh- and trl- are not very irish
right now I have Cbh-

Cobh?
ok

or Cibh for slender consonants
An Dhobhàigh Cuatham

yes

looks a lot more Irish!
the irishy orthography might turn out to be even more bloated than the wiob one
which should be funny in-universe

yes

so what happens next?

va:m, djə̤-S, njə:k, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwt, ljə̤:t, pʰjə̤p, kjə:-S
va:m, djə̤-S, njə:j, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨw, ljə̤:, pʰjə̤w, kjə:-S

do you want to have glottalized tones?
yes

let's say
va:m, djə̤-S, njə:jQ, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwQ, ljə̤:Q, pʰjə̤wQ, kjə:-S

Q = glottalized tone

breathy syllables don't change their tone
yes

va:m, djə̤-S, njə:jʔ, mwɨwl, zjə̤jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwʔ, ljə̤:, pʰjə̤w, kjə:-S

Or:

breathy syllables already shift to low tone

va:m, djə̀-S, njə:jQ, mwɨwl, zjə̀jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwQ, ljə̀:Q, pʰjə̀wQ, kjə:-S
<v> doesn't look that irish

shift it to <f>?

yes
fa:m, djə̀-S, njə:jQ, mwɨwl, zjə̀jl, tʰwəm, vwɨwQ, ljə̀:Q, pʰjə̀wQ, kjə:-S

fwɨwQ
fa:m, djə̀-S, njə:jQ, mwɨwl, sjə̀jl, tʰwəm, fwɨw, ljə̀:Q, pʰjə̀wQ, kjə:-S
also z > s

then glottalization turns into an abrupt rise in tone

fa:m, djə̀-S, njə́:j, mwɨwl, sjə̀jl, tʰwəm, fwɨw, ljə̌:, pʰjə̌w, kjə:-S

V́ = mid rising,V̌ = low rising
yes

sorry

fa:m, djə̀-S, njə́:j, mwɨwl, sjə̀jl, tʰwəm, fwɨ́w, ljə̌:, pʰjə̌w, kjə:-S

fwɨ́w has mid rising tone
yes

then a vowel sandhi

i don't like fwɨw

wouldn't fwu: be better?
yes!
fa:m, djə̀-S, njə́:j, mwul, sjə̀jl, tʰwəm, fwú:, ljə̌:, pʰjə̌w, kjə:-S

let's systematize as i don't like sjə̀jl either
fa:m, djə̀-S, njə́:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ljə̌:, pʰjə̌w, kjə:-S

ɨj/ɨw/əj/əw/aj/aw -> i:/u:/e:/o:/ai/au

mwu:l?

njə́:j should assimilate

njéi
fa:m, djə̀-S, njé:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ljə̌:, pʰjə̌w, kjə:-S

ɨ:j/ɨ:w/ə:j/ə:w/a:j/a:w -> i:/u:/ei/ou/ai/au?
maybe
this takes us back
in a way

to Wiob!

but they're not the same vowels

are you satisfied with the last vowel sandhi rule?
í ú aoigh obh aigh abh?

yes

or éigh eobh
yes

after slender consonants

fa:m, djə̀-S, njé:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ljə̌:, pʰjǒ:, kjə:-S

now, the Great Clickification!
yes

we've worked it out already
fa:m, gǀə̀-S, njé:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ljə̌:, ʘʰǒ:, cə:-S

njé:j has a click grin emoticon
fa:m, gǀè:-S, ŋǀé:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ʎě:, ʘʰǒ:, ce:-S
ə: > e: after slender consonants

before the clickification
yes

and o: after broad consonants?
now it's more like clickified irish than mandarin
o: after Cw

just add the séimhiú's and urú's and you effectively have Khoisan!

e: after Cj
yes
e: after Cjw

Fáilte chuig Ŧúabh Teatham Ŧathaigh!
Ŧú Teatham Ŧathaigh?

cinnte!
vowels shorten in closed syllables?

perhaps not

Thai style
how do I write these now
fa:m, gǀè:-S, ŋǀé:j, mwul, sjè:l, tʰwəm, fwú:, ʎě:, ʘʰǒ:, ce:-S
if I have both vowel length and tone

well there's a problem
idea: tone split!

or:

long a,e,i,o,u = adha, ...
Dhobhàdhaigh?

yes grin emoticon
Fhaghamhadhaighris
wow so Fhaghamhadhaighris

crazy

maybe not

i like your tone split idea
i have mid tone, low tone, mid rising tone > high tone, low rising tone

yes
let's make some falling tones
mid tone > mid falling

fhaghamhadhaghafhaghadhamhaighidhighris
is that how it should be written in universe

kidiyeoreum grin emoticon
?!?

means "i'm kidding"
high tone + long v > high falling

ahr

mid tone + long v->mid falling?
yes

low tone+long v->still low

or "ngã" tone?

sorry
low rising + long v > falling broken tone

nặng

no that would be hỏi
yes

what about low+long vowel?
let's make that hoi

we could have some bhlaoighniúil

low+long vowel -> falsetto -> high!
how falsetto
or low + long vowel > low rising

what makes me think it's plausible?
so we have a 7 tone system

(falsetto)

the sound gets so low that people start using only a part of their vocal folds to project the sound instead
low + long.mp3
lol that's funny

yes that's what i was thinking of!
still 7 tone system

yes

let's merge the low and mid falling tones
yes
mid, low, high, low rising, high falling, falling glottalized

yes!

that was unexpected bhlaoighniúileacht
basically thai + nặng

yes

or maybe not

merge the low rising and mid tones

mid, low, high, mid falling, high falling, falling glottalized
so how would the -th- genitive work here

you work it out grin emoticon
mid > low
low > low
high > low or high
mid falling > high
high falling > high
falling glottalized > high

yes

nice blaoighniúileacht

let's just call it blaoighnity

much shorter

high > low or high is interesting

so we have declensions!

which are not revealed in the spelling
how should the tones be marked

fleibenschwankenschraft
a à á â
adha àdha ádha âdha
maybe not?

mid tone: ŧra

low tone: ŧrà

high tone: ŧrá

mid falling: ŧradha

basically your suggestion

it'll work
low falling: ŧràdha
i mean falling glottalized
high falling: trádha

high from falsetto: ŧrâdha
mid tone: ŧra
low tone: ŧrà
high tone: ŧrá
mid falling: ŧradh
glottalized: ŧràdh
high falling: trádh
high from falsetto: ŧrâdh

yes
maybe hmong is a cuatham jokelang

so what does -th- do?

i don't like ŧràthadh ...

let's say that -thadh- or -thidh- becomes -ch!
ŧrath
ŧràth
ŧráth
ŧrach
ŧràch
trách
ŧrâch

yes
this is def my irish jokelang

it's even funnier with the falsetto!
or an awesomenesslang
irish + khoisan + chinese

fam31, gǀe55-S, ŋǀej53, mwul33, sjel55, tʰwəm33, fwu53, ʎẻ21, ʘʰỏ21, ce31-S

fadham, dêach, néich, mobhul, sêachal, trobham?

sorry

fadham, dêadh, néidh, mobhul, sêadhal

what happens to 6?

THE BEST FALSE FRIEND EVER!

néidh was 2 in Sioaued (remember?)
oang, néidh, sáel, šíre, léur, woaugh, foinet, néšir, sáeleut, neilleur, augois, soíneb

how do i distinguish tʰwəm33 from tʰwam33?
fleibenschwankenschraft...
that's tʰwəm33
trobham is tʰwam33

fobhúdh (fobhúadh?), lèidh, preòdh, ceadh
trobhuam is better
yes

what if it were |ʰwəm33?
tribhiam?

as opposed to tribheam which is |ʰwam33
yes
7 - fobhúdh

Cuatham orthography is pretty easy to figure out

not at all like Ráp Ma!

Phonology

Initials

An unusual feature of IlL/Spare pages 1/4 phonology is that palatalized stops are realized as clicks.

IlL/Spare pages 1/4 initials
Labial Coronal Lateral Coarticulated Velar Glottal
broad slender broad slender broad slender broad slender broad slender
Nasal voiceless /m̊/ /ŋ̊ʘ/ /n̊/ /ŋ̊ǀ/ /n̊ˡ/ /ŋ̊ǁ/ /ŋ̊!/ /ŋ̊ǂ/ /ŋ̊/ /ɲ̊/
voiceless /m/ /ŋʘ/ /n/ /ŋǀ/ /nˡ/ /ŋǁ/ /ŋ!/ /ŋǂ/ /ŋ/ /ɲ/
Stop tenuis /p/ /ʘ/ /t/ /ǀ/ /tɬ/ /ǁ/ /!/ /ǂ/ /k/ /c/ /ʔ/
aspirated /pʰ/ /ʘʰ/ /tʰ/ /ǀʰ/ /tɬʰ/ /ǁʰ/ /!ʰ/ /ǂʰ/ /kʰ/ /cʰ/
voiced /b/ /gʘ/ /d/ /gǀ/ /dɮ/ /gǁ/ /g!/ /gǂ/ /g/ /ɟ/
Fricative voiceless /f/ /fç/ /s/ /sç/ /ɬ/ /ɬʲ/ /ɧ/ /ʂ/ /x/ /ç/ /h/
voiced /z/ /zj/ /ɮ/ /ɮʲ/ /ɧ̬/ /ʐ/ /ɣ/ /ʝ/
Trill /r/ /r̝/
Approximant /w/ /ɥ/ /l/ /ʎ/ /j/

Medials

The medial is optional. There is one possible medial, /w~ɥ/.

Nucleus

There are three possible nuclei: /a/, /ə/ and zero. The nuclei display a range of different realizations depending on the phonetic environment:

  • /a/ is realized as:
    • /ɑ/ after a broad labialized consonant
    • /æ/ after a palatal consonant, palatal click or /ɥ/
    • /a/ otherwise
  • /ə/ is realized as:
    • /ɔ/ after a broad labialized consonant
    • /e/ after a palatal consonant, palatal click or /ɥ/, or with /-j/ coda
    • /ə/ otherwise
  • Zero nucleus is realized as:
    • /u/ if the medial is /w/
    • /y/ if the medial is /ɥ/
    • /ɨ/ if the medial is zero and initial is a dental click, a retroflex or a broad velar
    • /i/ if the medial is zero, for other initials

Coda

The coda is optional. There are seven possible finals in IlL/Spare pages 1/4: /m n ŋ l r w j/.

Tones

Mutations

seimhiu
/p, ʘ/ > /f(ʲ)/
/pʰ, ʘʰ/ > /f(ʲ)/
/b, gʘ, m, ŋʘ/ > /w, ɥ/
/t, |/ > /h/
/d, g|/ > /ɣ, j/
/tʰ, |ʰ/ > /h/
/!, ǂ, !ʰ, ǂʰ/ > /ɧ, ɧʲ/
/g|, gǂ/ > voiced sj
/k, c, kʰ, cʰ/ > /x, ç/
/g, gʲ/ > /ɣ, j/
/s, sʲ/ > /x, ç/

uru:
/p, ʘ/ > /b gʘ/ > /m, ŋʘ/
/pʰ ʘʰ/ > /m̊ ŋ̊ʘ/
/t, |/ > /d, g|/ > /n, ŋ|/
/tʰ, |ʰ/ > /nʰ, ŋʰ|/
/!, ǂ/ > /g!, gǂ/ > /ŋ!, ŋǂ/
/!ʰ, ǂʰ/ > /ŋʰ!, ŋʰǂ/
/k, c/ >/g, gʲ/ > /ŋ, ŋʲ/
/s, sʲ/ > /z, zʲ/ (spelled ns)

Grammar

masculine declension:

singular:
an: nominative
an-S: accusative
an-H: genitive

plural:
on-S: nominative
on-N: accusative
on-S: genitive

feminine declension:

singular:
an-S: nominative (*ire*)
an-S: accusative
an-N: genitive

plural:
ár: nominative
ár-N: accusative
ár-S: genitive

Lexicon

  • bhò-N - from
  • na-N - bhò + an
  • Ŧú Teatham Ŧathaigh
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