Verse:Hmøøh/Ngedhraism

Traditional Talman religion/philosophy is often called Ngronaism (ing-ROH-nay-zum (AmE) or ing-RON-ay-zəm (BrE), Eevo: Ŋronaivih /ˈŋrɔnaivih/, Clofabosin: Ronestatin), and serves as the civic religion of Talman and Talman-derived societies.

Ngronaism is, often, less a set of beliefs than a set of common symbols, language, and rituals. Ngronaism recognizes that narratives are important - in modern Ngronaism, efforts are made to construct narratives that approach truth.

Ideas

Inspirations: Judaism, Ancient Chinese philosophy, Catholicism, Sufism

A rough timeline:

• After the Calamities, Talman classical philosophy realized need for technology including social technology
• A period much like the Warring States period, with competing philosophies sponsored by warlords and citystates
• One of these philosophies win out and dominate Talma for a long time
  • it happens to be a Lăcoaf philosophy; responsible for Lăcoaf as a classical language
• Then Grouid the revolutionary comes along

Some riffing on ideas:

• (It's OK for religions with anthropomorphic gods to have contradictions. In that case it's preferable to reduce the gods' role, though.)
• Folk religion could do something vaguely Christian in its themes. 2nd mover is much more anthropomorphic and the only reason that the 2nd Mover is so friendly to humans is that she herself was once a human. Well, the 2nd Mover is already quite human and limited. Would resonate with some people who only trust people who had suffered like them.
• "Mărotłites on the outside, Machiavellians on the inside"
• As Jewish as possible without being theistic?

History

The concept of the Second Mover admits multiple different interpretations. Generally, however, the Second Mover is seen as the force of progress - be it scientific or social/moral progress.

Origin

Paganism; had a cleanliness ritual (see Verse:Tricin/Germ theory).

• Daφlom (?) = god of war/hate/discord (~ Eevo ðollt 'war')
• 3ronaeae = goddess of the arts

Warring philosophies

A series of natural disasters and outbreaks, known as the ___ Calamities, set off social instability as well as eroding trust in institutions. The disasters had taught the Talmans that the natural order was not to be trusted; thus the Second Mover took center place in Talman symbolism and became the symbol of good against evil. However, during this time of strife it was difficult to trust other humans as much as it was difficult to trust nature. Exactly how the Second Mover operated and "moved" humans became a matter of heated debate among philosophers. Thus arose various competing philosophical doctrines dealing with 1) how individuals should live and 2) how society should be structured.

Amid the chaos, many nobles and warlords vied for hegemony. In the process they sponsored philosophies that would benefit their kingdom. The philosophies included:

• (Mohism analogue/Idealism: "Universal love!")
• Formalism/Legalism (Windermere: Răweat Hăma?)
• A radically individualistic philosophy
• Quasi-Buddhism?
• Mărotłism (Eevo: Myrótxvih), typically associated with Windermere philosopher rith Mărotł (Eevo: rið Myrótx). Perhaps Marotlism is a syncretistic mix of Talmic and Windermere religions.

Mărotłism

Mărotłism was eventually the ideology to win out. As the Windermere Empire consolidated its power, Mărotłites rapidly took control of institutions in Talma, except in a few remote holdouts such as Nūrei. With the unification of the Lăcoaf Empire, Mărotłism became the state ideology. Various smaller states that were not absorbed by the empire (such as the Tigolian states, the precursors to the modern Talmic-speaking countries Skella and Amphir) would become tributary states.

Early Mărotłites sought to create a humanist ideology. They attempted to justify these tenets and laws with a synthesis of myths and previous Talmic and Windermere religions.

However, the version of Mărotłism that became the official imperial ideology was significantly different from these earlier efforts. Imperial Mărotłism taught that there was a God who revealed himself in nature and natural laws. Morality was hence viewed as a kind of natural law. As such Imperial Mărotłism emphasized harmony between the First and Second Movers and in general sought to justify state power.

Unfortunately, over time Mărotłism became very dogmatic and micromanaging, and more often than not was a hypocritical front for power-hungry elites.

Mărotłism, take two

The Mărotłian thinkers of the Fnüeng dynasty era wanted to eschew the ceremonial and superstitious excesses of the Mărotłism of the Gweats dynasty. Somewhat like Neo-Confucians, they sought to distill and "rationalize" social philosophy, and to rigorously derive it from first principles. (?)

Snialism, a mystical form of Ngronaism, also arose during this period as a reaction to the dominant ideology.

Grouid

Emisom Grouid was inspired by old Second Mover writings for his own idea of the Second Mover, to formulate what he believed was the most true religion/philosophy.

anyway the idea is that sticking to tradition is against the will of the 2nd mover - this is where Grouid kinda introduces manichean dualism regardless of what god or anyone tells or you you should do, the second mover is what has the final say

this is close to praveen's original idea

as i remember it

the god to follow regardless of whether there is a god

Grouid might have taken inspiration from ancient 2nd mover writings

Basically Grouid's writings could be described as "sci-fi without the tech aesthetic." A lot of it is quasi-mystical woo; Snialist influence is evident in his language. But he got the idea behind modern Ngronaism - a vision of concrete progress and transcendence. Grouid would definitely have been influenced by Snialism in any case.

Contemporary Ngronaism

Basically transhumanism

Basic tenets

Second Mover

The Second Mover (Eevo: a Nwtxáh Arn /ə nuˈtʃah ˈaɾ(ə)n/; Clofabosin: ribilzavudan) is a central Talman spiritual concept representing creativity, agency and moral good within humans. The belief states that we humans are responsible for "creation" and formulating rules, where "God has left off", even when no one is telling us what to do.

Dipăreatü

The originally Mărotłian concept of dipăreatü is a principle of nonviolence, analogous to ahiṃsa in Dharmic religions. (The Windermere word dipăreatü means 'non-aggression'.) Mărotłian dipăreatü allows violence in retaliation or self-defense, or as a punishment for violence - the reasoning was that aggression is so serious that it should be discouraged by any means necessary. There has been much debate among Talman thinkers on exactly how much retributive violence is justified.

Historical controversies

Problem of conflict

The problem of conflict, which asks: why is there conflict among humans, if there is one entity that represents humans? This is analogous to the problem of evil in western theism.

"Canon"

Like Judaism, Ngronaism has an "open source" textual canon which allows additions. Thinkers from different time periods and environments have their own interpretations, though often informed by previous ones, on what exactly the philosophy entails about how humans ought to live.

Ancient texts

• The Sondmorið Manuscripts (Eevo: /ˈsɔntmɔrið/) are a collection of Thensarian- and Tigol-language manuscripts found in the Sondmorið caves. Among other things, they give a mythological account of human nature and origins. Devotional poems are also included.

Classical texts

• The Imthumăytil (Windermere, meaning "investigations") is a Classical Windermere text which depicts sages (Classical Windermere: impida, the title may be translated as "Master") discussing and debating various ethical and philosophical topics, and attempting to find the "true meaning" and "correct practice" of previous Talman religious traditions. Most surviving copies are edited by later impida in various schools of interpretation. The Imthumăytil was traditionally required reading in Talman schools.

Symbols and rituals

Ngronaism uses symbols, allegories, myths and rituals copiously, many of them of syncretistic origin; however, it emphasizes that these are allegories and myth, designed for absorption by the limited human mind.

Holidays

[TODO: Holidays based on historical events and myths]

[TODO: dishes associated with the holidays]

Spring Equinox

Traditionally, the Spring Equinox holiday was celebrated in Talman paganism in order to bring good harvest for the year.

For the Spring Equinox holiday, there are foods that use lightly-flavored mushrooms, along with other spring herbs and other "bright"/tart-flavored ingredients.

Sdahnsa

Sdahnsa is the celebration of the harvest. Also themes related to death/decline?

Bwrjadreeg

Falling on Llavw 1, Bwrjadreeg (Eevo; 'winter solstice') is a holiday which emphasizes resolve to survive and live, remembrance of those who have died, as well as hope for a future better than now.

Monasticism

It is common for Talman philosophies (influenced by Mărotłism) to have monastic orders. Monks take a vow of poverty, and study, contemplate and teach the philosophy in question in more depth.

In modern Talma, monasticism is considered a lifestyle choice, not bound to any specific religion or school of thought. The government may fund "nonsectarian monasteries", in which the monks often focus more on particular subjects of interest than a specific school of philosophy. Universities often serve a role similar to monasteries where the "monks" help out with research projects. In fact many Talman universities began as monasteries.

Variants

Snialism

Main article: Verse:Tricin/Snialism

Folk Ngronaism

Later, the originally quasi-rationalist philosophy of the Imthumăytil had branched out into many variants. The biggest difference is between upper-class Ngronaism and folk Ngronaism(s). Accordingly upper class Ngronaists stereotyped folk Ngronaists as superstitious, vindictive, fanatical wishful thinkers; folk Ngronaists viewed upper class Ngronaists as cynical, self-rationalizing, morally blind, privileged people.

Some folk practices:

• The Second Mover is treated much more theistically than in canonical Ngronaism. People often attempt to access her through prayer or bargaining, in hopes of warding off evil or misfortune.
• A belief in the afterlife, usually paradise for the virtuous and hell for evildoers -- often aimed at the "Ngronaist establishment" who are portrayed as "denialists" about this issue, i.e. denial about the consequences of the oppression they are responsible for