User:Ceige/Manchu Grammar Overview: Difference between revisions

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==Intro==
==Intro==
This guide is meant to give people with an interest in historical linguistics and conlanging an overview of the Manchu language.
This guide is meant to give people with an interest in historical linguistics and conlanging an overview of the Manchu language.
==Orthography==
The Manchu script has a Proto-Sinaitic (and thus likely Egyptian, via grapheme borrowing + phonemic calquing) heritage along with the Roman, Greek, Hebrew, Arabian and Devanagari writing systems, amongst many others.
Specifically, the Manchu script's lineage is thus: Manchu < Mongolian < Old Uyghur < Sogdian < Syriac < Aramaic < Phoenician < Proto-Sinaitic < Egyptian Hieroglyphs.
The Old Uyghur script was used for Buddhist, Manichaean and Christian texts.


==Phonology==
==Phonology==
Please refer to the Wikipedia Manchu Phonology section for the following notes.
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu_language#Phonology Wikipedia: Manchu language #Phonology]
* [https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Manchu/Lesson_1_-_Pronunciation Wikibooks: Manchu/Lesson 1 - Pronunciation]
===Music===
Here's some music to get a feel for the modern phonology as sung (note some contractions, e.g. tebufe na > /të:f nei/:
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0py_I25Q0ys Hargaxame Wecere Alin]  (Bilingual)
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCf0cTGOFbE Arki Ucun] - probably as close as you can get to a Manchurian tavern diddly, very catchy
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTLKx0gRaQQ Xongkoro] - I have no idea what's happening here but it's fun
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BJcOWlse4 Saisa gabtara ucun(the song of archery)] - Manchu trad/classic rock, slow but has a nice surprise towards the end.
===Consonants===
===Consonants===
* Fortis-lenis distinction ala Mandarin, English
* Fortis-lenis distinction ala Mandarin, English
* Apparently a historic ts ~ s alternation
* coda /r/ can sometimes be followed by an epenthetic duplicate of the vowel before it.


===Vowels===
===Vowels===
* e = schwa-ish sound ala Mandarin but considered "front"
* e = schwa-ish sound ala Mandarin but considered "front"
* ū/v/ü = probably some sort of central u sound, but in Xib
* ū/v/ü = probably some sort of central u sound, but in Xibe this has supposedly merged with u.
 
===Phonactics in general===
* Manchu phonology has more or less followed a cycle of contracting open syllables to produce CVC syllables, before simplifying the inevitable internal CC clusters, and then repeating that process.
* -n is the one reoccurring coda consonant (ala Japanese).
* Wikipedia mentions ''abtara-mbi'' as an example of this sort of simplification, resulting in ''atara-mbi''; however, even -mbi appears to be a combination of -mV* and -bi *(frequent verb nominaliser in the Altaic language area, cf. Korean, Japanese; even the Uralic and IE families like -mV as a nominaliser).
 
==Grammar==
===Noun cases===
Manchu primarily marks noun case via a series of clitics/suffixes (that's a debate for another time).
 
Here the core Manchu noun cases will be covered, with comparison to other languages with similar noun cases, for mnemonic effect and to stimulate the inner lumper in all of us ''(the reader should not take this as defacto evidence of a genetic relationship)''.
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Case || Form || Comparative Notes
| Nominative || Ø ||
|-
| Accusative || be, or Ø - ''be'' has ~definiteness || Cf. Japanese -he, -wo; note -he could conceivably have Chinese origins too
|-
| Genetive || i, or ni || ''I need to confirm what possible the difference in usage is''
|-
| Dative-locative || de || cf. Turkic, Mongolic, Japanese
|-
| Ablative || ci || cf. Partitive in Uralic
|}
 
In addition, there is a series of less used cases:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Case || Form || Notes
|-
| Initiative || deri || ''Starting point of an action''
|-
| Terminative || tala, tele, tolo || ''End point of an action''
|-
| Indefinite allative || si || "to somewhere around X" - allative, but when you don't know precisely where you'll end up relative to the goal of your movement.
|-
| Indefinite locative || la, le, lo || "at somewhere around X"
|-
| Indefinite ablative || tin || "from X or somewhere like that"
|-
| Distributive || dari || every one of something
|-
| Formal || gese || as, like, in the form of
|-
| Identical || ali, eli, oli || same as X, from adali "same"
|-
| Orientative || ru || facing/towards something, not actually moving
|-
| Revertive || ca, ce, co || backward/against something
|-
| Translative || ri || change in quality/form
|-
|}

Revision as of 10:58, 18 September 2017

Intro

This guide is meant to give people with an interest in historical linguistics and conlanging an overview of the Manchu language.

Orthography

The Manchu script has a Proto-Sinaitic (and thus likely Egyptian, via grapheme borrowing + phonemic calquing) heritage along with the Roman, Greek, Hebrew, Arabian and Devanagari writing systems, amongst many others.

Specifically, the Manchu script's lineage is thus: Manchu < Mongolian < Old Uyghur < Sogdian < Syriac < Aramaic < Phoenician < Proto-Sinaitic < Egyptian Hieroglyphs.

The Old Uyghur script was used for Buddhist, Manichaean and Christian texts.

Phonology

Please refer to the Wikipedia Manchu Phonology section for the following notes.

Music

Here's some music to get a feel for the modern phonology as sung (note some contractions, e.g. tebufe na > /të:f nei/:

Consonants

  • Fortis-lenis distinction ala Mandarin, English
  • Apparently a historic ts ~ s alternation
  • coda /r/ can sometimes be followed by an epenthetic duplicate of the vowel before it.

Vowels

  • e = schwa-ish sound ala Mandarin but considered "front"
  • ū/v/ü = probably some sort of central u sound, but in Xibe this has supposedly merged with u.

Phonactics in general

  • Manchu phonology has more or less followed a cycle of contracting open syllables to produce CVC syllables, before simplifying the inevitable internal CC clusters, and then repeating that process.
  • -n is the one reoccurring coda consonant (ala Japanese).
  • Wikipedia mentions abtara-mbi as an example of this sort of simplification, resulting in atara-mbi; however, even -mbi appears to be a combination of -mV* and -bi *(frequent verb nominaliser in the Altaic language area, cf. Korean, Japanese; even the Uralic and IE families like -mV as a nominaliser).

Grammar

Noun cases

Manchu primarily marks noun case via a series of clitics/suffixes (that's a debate for another time).

Here the core Manchu noun cases will be covered, with comparison to other languages with similar noun cases, for mnemonic effect and to stimulate the inner lumper in all of us (the reader should not take this as defacto evidence of a genetic relationship).

Case Form Comparative Notes Nominative Ø
Accusative be, or Ø - be has ~definiteness Cf. Japanese -he, -wo; note -he could conceivably have Chinese origins too
Genetive i, or ni I need to confirm what possible the difference in usage is
Dative-locative de cf. Turkic, Mongolic, Japanese
Ablative ci cf. Partitive in Uralic

In addition, there is a series of less used cases:

Case Form Notes
Initiative deri Starting point of an action
Terminative tala, tele, tolo End point of an action
Indefinite allative si "to somewhere around X" - allative, but when you don't know precisely where you'll end up relative to the goal of your movement.
Indefinite locative la, le, lo "at somewhere around X"
Indefinite ablative tin "from X or somewhere like that"
Distributive dari every one of something
Formal gese as, like, in the form of
Identical ali, eli, oli same as X, from adali "same"
Orientative ru facing/towards something, not actually moving
Revertive ca, ce, co backward/against something
Translative ri change in quality/form