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 Chrysophylax (talk)  Emperor Zelos (talk)  Pá mamūnám ontā́ bán (talk)  Waahlis (talk)
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Welcome back!
Ça fait longtemps! Long time no see, Fauxlosophe! Glad to see all your contributions, but would you mind changing the name of Gwengâr Vocabulary to Gwengâr/Vocabulary? Just a matter of principle!
Welcome back!
Waahlis 11:55, 1 May 2013 (CEST)
Ouais, trop longtemps. Y était tout un mélodrame avec ED et tout ça, dont j'ai pas voulu perdre mon temps. Ça serait plus calme ici j'espère. Y a combien actif ici? J'aimerais bien parler et être social sans avoir tous ce bagage.
Merci de m'accueillir,
- --Fauxlosophe (talk) 18:58, 1 May 2013 (CEST)
Oh, ce qui s'est passé en Wikia? Rostov nous a rendu visite, mais il a été bloqué pour vandalisme... Et ouais, c'est très calme ici! Bien, aujourd'hui nous avons un forum, mais je crois que tu déjà l'as trouvé...!
Chrysophylax et Zelos sont ici avec moi tout la semaine. L'utilisateur le plus actif en ce moment est Darthme. Chacun d'entre nous aiment parler.
De rien! Waahlis 20:49, 1 May 2013 (CEST)
Ouais, mais pour moi, je suis parti donc il m'a demandé de lui votais comme bureaucrate si PMOB n'a pas lui parler. J'ai pas voulu le voir en contrôle du wikia sans vérification, donc, j'ai disparu. Mes études aussi commence à demander de plus en plus de temps. Mais je serai ici, même si je disparaîtrais parfois.
- --Fauxlosophe (talk) 21:19, 1 May 2013 (CEST)
Ah, je comprend, quel dommage. Moi aussi j'ai mes études... Bien, tu es bienvenu ici!
Salutations, Waahlis 20:01, 3 May 2013 (CEST)
Amor
Holy shit I love how productive you are! :D Go Fauxy go! Emperor Zelos 08:09, 5 May 2013 (CEST)
I go through phases of productivity but with my exams just finished, I've had a bunch of ideas buzzing in my head and I'm making up for a lot of lost time. - --Fauxlosophe (talk) 21:50, 5 May 2013 (CEST)
I can understand that =)
I assume you mean "Subjective Object" you mean "Subject" and teh conlang is VOS, oR? Emperor Zelos 06:02, 6 May 2013 (CEST)
No, unfortunately a lot in the Fén Ghír article is a hold over from before I understood anything about Linguistics (I've run through it a few times but I keep missing this stuff. I may yet try a ground up rewrite if I settle on a format that I prefer). What I meant there was "The Object which renders the sentance Subjective" as in "He said you ran north". Thinking over it now, I can't come up with anything better than "Subjectifying" for it but I believe I may remove the bar as a whole since its content is better covered elsewhere. I think "Clause" might be a better term though I am not certain it is the best possible one. -Fauxlosophe (talk) 06:35, 6 May 2013 (CEST)
"Perspective Object" might be better? Emperor Zelos 06:39, 6 May 2013 (CEST)
Perspective is perfect. I've already made a couple changes but I'll add that on now I'm considering a term to keep things consistant, I want to remove "case" [which I found a list of an used as a basis for comparing prepositions]. "Object" isn't ideal but is possible. However, Noun/Noun Phrase is a bit closer to what I have in mind and is what I've been using more recently. Any better suggestions? -Fauxlosophe (talk) 06:45, 6 May 2013 (CEST)
Featured language of May 2013:Nominations
<wikiforumthread id=26 />
Waahlis 13:22, 5 May 2013 (CEST)
Review
Hi Faux, I will take a closer look at your language tomorrow.
Regards,
Waahlis 23:21, 8 May 2013 (CEST)
Much appreciated. Giving it a look over now myself, as well as Cwengâr. Neither is polished but I'm hoping you can help me with making it look a little more presentable.
Cheers, -Fauxlosophe (talk) 23:36, 8 May 2013 (CEST)
I'll get right to it:
Aesthetics and layout
- Have you considered the "bluetable lightbluebg" class for your tables?
- A small text above all tables make it look a bit more inviting.
- Maybe put the phrasebook in a table? Then it takes less space, and is more easily read.
Wording and orthography
- Try to have as a rule to either bolden or use oblique on words in your conlang. That way they are more easily visible.
- The phonotactics section require needs to be clarified and reworded. Have you considered to bolden the Cs and Vs?
- "In larger words, the consonant of the root word will be; C-V-C." - I fail to understand this sentence, I fear!
- In the Quantifying determiners section, it'd be better if you stated that they should be followed by the noun, rather than showing it in the table.
- Do not capitalise grammatical terms. If you want them emphasised, please use bold or oblique fonts.
- Typo: Lenition, not lentition.
- Please do not abbreviate to "Misc".
- The headers should only have the initial capitalised.
Grammar, phonology and terminology
- In the grammar section, I would prefer a table of pronouns labelled similarly to Biscayan, but you have so few that you do not need to split them into singular and plural.
- I recommend you to use the following terms in your Determiners section:
- Current - Proximal
- Contrasting - Distal
- New - Alternative
- Inquisitive - Interrogative
- Examples are always welcome!
- Try to put all phonemes in slashes or brackets!
- I enjoy your syntax sections on phrases/clauses as well as those on prepositions! More on those and I'd die happily!
- I always like to see more on the phonology. Is there allophony? Sandhi? Dissimilation? If not, I would like it stated as such.
Waahlis 22:53, 9 May 2013 (CEST)
Thanks for taking the time to review stuff.
- I have no idea how to code, even simple wiki stuff. I mostly hit things with rocks until they look like they are listening. Blue tables&Overhead text are much nicer! Thanks for telling me how/pointing me towards Biscayan where I can loot what I need.
- Most errors should be fixed, save the obliquing Fén words which I intend to take care of.
- I'm not sure what is meant by "Try to put all phonemes in slashes or brackets!". I've marked syllables in glosses [as best I can for how I read them, though I'm a bit iffy with some]. Examples will be added where possible. If I can think of more to say on the other elements, I will. Certainly, there are ways in which they act differently from their english equivalents, but I have trouble summoning that to mind when writing and I suspect I apply these differences inconsistantly, so I would benefit from writing them down here with examples. Other possible points I could expand on would be greatly appreciated.
- Sandhi, Allophones & etc. were avoided due to my lack of experience and comfort with them. For the sake of making it pronounable for myself, I'd simplified the pronunciation significantly while trying to keep it highly regular, and the phonetics section has been updated to reflect this. Hopefully the explaination offered for this is plausible.
Thank you very much for taking the time to go over all of this, -Fauxlosophe (talk) 06:56, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
- I happen to like tables quite a lot, so if you want to, I could make them a bit more intelligible?
- In the phonology section, I would recommend you to use slashes, //, to indicate sounds. In the alphabet section, it is not obvious which symbols are letters and which ones that are sounds. For example:
"[...]it may be seen that fronted vowels vowels are "lengthened" before sonorants; /ɪ/ becomes /i/, /ɛ/ becomes /e:/. "
Speaking of which, this is a kind of irregularity, that vowels change their quality when they ecome longer. You would otherwise expect /ɛ/ to become /ɛ:/.
- In the phonotactics section, I would love to have the L, C and V explained. As a reader, I do not know what they symbolise in thi specific case. And try to bold or oblique all words or affixes written in Fén!
- Also, please change your spelling of "sentance" into "sentence"! I normally do not care about those things, but since you use the word quite often...!
Regards, Waahlis 11:55, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Examples
Whatcha think? Emperor Zelos 09:23, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
I'd recommend changing up format from line to line, so the Umbrean and English quotes are both italicised and in quotes and the phonetic is in slashes. For my personal taste, the conjugation of "see" seems a little too complex which makes me worry how forbidding the table could get longer verbs. Could verbs be broken into smaller morphemes by slashes or some other form than just a hyphen with all of the meanings written out? Even if some of the morphemes are compounded, it would be handy to divide it up a little. Even just isolating the [potentially modified] root from additional prefixes would be handy since it gives a bit more of an idea of what each modification is doing and makes it seem a little less forbidding.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 15:59, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
uh, I think you are using "forbidding" in an errorous context o_o Cause I have no clue what you mean, I think you mean "intimidating"
But elaborate what you mean with the style and elaborate the rest, I did not understand it Emperor Zelos 18:50, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Intimidating would be better, though "uninviting" is probably closer to what I was going for.
I'll give an example here to give you a sense of what I mean. I'm going to skim Umbrean to make my best attempt at this but admittedly, I may misunderstand the grammar here;
"Tšees fššedylw uuvvidjljaall"
//t͡ʃe:s fʃ:edylw ʉ:v:ɨdljɒ:l://
Tšees fššed-y-lw uu>vvidj<lj-aall
1s.erg wolf-acc.sjv <sjv>see-sjv.aff.ind.3.liv.prs.incep
"I probably will see the wolf soon" -Fauxlosophe (talk) 19:12, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Aahhh I see, Alright :D Thanks thats a great suggestion
though, why would it be uninviting? XD
Emperor Zelos 19:14, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
It looks better much now! I wrote the first reply in a bit of a rush, but you did most of the stuff I was trying to recommend [ironically I'm much more careful to have good grammar in my French replies, my mistakes in English are native ones]. I remember reading it as "see-sjv-aff.ind.3.liv.prs.incep" which just boggled me especially since I didn't notice the root in the center and thought that it was drawing on having a static consonants in the center while moving around vowels to indicate most tenses/cases while adding suffixes and prefixes for those that don't. The current version is a lot clearer, though it still looks a little complex for a natlang [Though I have a bias towards Western European languages and what you have seems somewhat comparable with Finnish], if you'd like though I can look over it in more detail before saying anything further as right now I'm just giving first impressions.
One more thing I'd do is separate the aa from the ll in "uuvvidjljaall" if that is at all possible since from what I can tell on your tables, they serve slightly different grammatical functions.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 19:25, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Feel free to take a look. Yes it is quite complex but thats intentional. Long lived bastards speaks it :) I do plan on adding more nuances to subtle changes.
Oh yeah its not because the aa is a vowel that depends on the tempus (tense aspect choice) which goes with the -ll, there is no reasonable way to pull them apart as I have made it. Emperor Zelos 19:34, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Productivity
I have decided to award you with the following medal to applaud your productivity! Put it on your user page and wear it with pride!
{{Medal/productive}}
Sincerely, Waahlis 11:25, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Thank you! It's been put up already. As I said with Zelos, I don't think I can keep this up as a permenant case, however, I will try to keep my contribution relatively consistant over time and there will definitely be periods of productivity [especially if I disappeared for a little]. Speaking of though, I will put up the changes for Fén later today [or maybe tomorrow if I am busy]; sentances weren't done previously due to lack of time but I figure I can finish most of what is left tonight [aside from tables and examples which will be a process].
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 15:59, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
Please, this isn't the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, we don't give awards proactively! It's for the fact that you have been productive! We are all just glad we have users around! Waahlis 17:02, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
It's a good wiki and I appreciate the quality control of language pages so I'm glad to help out where I can. It's a bit of a shame that there aren't more users though. Would it be possible to make the code more user friendly like Wikia? I've chatted with a conlanger on wikia who said that the difficulty of tables and codes are the primary reason that he hasn't switched to this side of the fork, which is understandable as I had the same hesistation initially. Otherwise, I think the IRC or just little translation challenges/activites that people can work on together as a group will bring people out of talk pages and into a more visible community. Actually, if there's wouldn't be a problem with it, I could create the IRC channel on a sandbox page just to give an idea of what I can do/what I mean here. I don't have much of a clue for coding and my experience here comes from trial and error on another wiki so aesthetics are a bit lacking but you or others would be free to improve on it.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 18:39, 10 May 2013 (CEST)
The question
File:FénGhír.png - To be deleted or not to be deleted, that is the question? Waahlis 11:01, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
I think I'd prefer deletion since as I said I'm not sure of my legal right over the first and both are of questionable usefulness, my only worry is over working you guys cleaning up my irrelevant pages.
ps. Speaking of deleting pages; if I made templates for translations featured on the site similar to the front page [but customized individually for cases where examples are not given their own page] would that be useful or just needless clutter?
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 14:36, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Ooh, no worries, it's what I do!
Hmm, I suspect you want to translate for example your article on Fén Ghír into Fén Ghír? Well, honestly, we do not want to see a bunch if individual templates for each page. I will talk to Zelos to see if he has a solution. Waahlis 14:46, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Actually, I was thinking about adding it to say, "The Lord's Prayer" to have a link to "Cha#The_Lord.27s_Prayer", Fén, Cwengâr, Alska and any other version I could find floating around [including possibly transcribing/copying PMOB's version from the video]. If we add these templates as companions to translation examples, I don't think the number would get too overwhelming.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 14:57, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Basically the same then! It doesn't remove the problem. I have an idea, but it must be realised by someone adept in coding. I'll speak to Zelos. Waahlis 16:12, 11 May 2013 (CEST)
Translation of Cwengâr into Dhannuá
The Tale of Rís Úairosúe or well, at least as far as I got before succumbing to sleep. Since I can't call this fully canon Dhannuá based on my lack of sleep, I'm putting it in the some dialect folder… for now.
-- Chrysophylax 09:35, 20 May 2013 (CEST)
Interlinear
May I suggest adding interlinear to Literature:Cwengâr/Verse? Emperor Zelos 06:33, 22 May 2013 (CEST)
It's a little rough, but I have one up now. --Fauxlosophe (talk) 19:19, 22 May 2013 (CEST)
Featured language of May 2013: Voting
<wikiforumthread id=27/>
Waahlis 20:10, 22 May 2013 (CEST)
Semantics
Whatcha think for a starter? Emperor Zelos 17:21, 24 May 2013 (CEST)
I'd consider two points; Maybe expand the range of the article to include definite as well, since there are strong parallels and a conlang could hypothetically work with some inbetween or by blending some of the distinction between definite and indefinite for more obscure cases if they attach context or a grammatic rule. Which, although it would be more research, it might be worth our time to create a chart of languages to show how these distinctions can be blended and which are often left distinct.
Possibly if there are notable examples of indefinite or definite articles also being used for different things in some of these example languages, then we might also include a link to that detangling in the footnotes.
The latter is pretty ambitious but could be considered a long term goal and something we encourage people to leave in the footnotes.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 19:01, 24 May 2013 (CEST)
I agree we should include more, I just got the indefinate first cause its fresh in my mind. There is a differens between indefinate in this case and indefinate articles XD
Indefinate article simply means "not definate"/"not known to the speaker" while indefinate in the article means "An unspecific entity"
But I agree it needs to be expanded. Emperor Zelos 19:13, 24 May 2013 (CEST)
I see, do we need to focus on that though? I'm thinking we'll want to hone in on pretty fundamental aspects of language; cases/adpositions, articles, auxiliary verbs (though that would be more origins/meanings of auxiliary verbs in other languages) which it is easy to fall back on English or another European language for. Other things are important but could be covered by suggesting people check out wiktionary when translating and consider carefully how many of the subdefinitions they want to include with their words.
-Fauxlosophe (talk) 19:35, 24 May 2013 (CEST)
I think we can include everything as time progresses, the more we help the better :) But thats for time Emperor Zelos 03:08, 25 May 2013 (CEST)
Congratulations!
Congratulations! You language Fén Ghír was voted featured! A truly wonderful language!
Please put the {{Template:Medal/featured|language=Fén Ghír}} on your user page to show of your achievement!
Sincerely, Waahlis 09:03, 30 May 2013 (CEST)
Thanks! I'm a bit disappointed I didn't run up against some of the admins, Attian really should have been nominated at least. So I feel a little wierd about how it landslided towards me, I expected I'd get it maybe on the third or fourth go after I had done some more work on it.
Eitherway, the badge up now and I am pretty happy about it.
-Cheers, Fauxlosophe (talk) 17:45, 30 May 2013 (CEST)
No, reason to thank me, after all I abstained from voting! And don't say that, I really need to brush that language off when the summer comes. Well, to be honest, your language was by far the most documented one, and the voting participation wasn't what we expected. For a first-timer, I Think it turned out pretty well, though!
Congrats, again! Waahlis 20:27, 30 May 2013 (CEST)
I meant thank you for the message of congraduations! I'm still sort of surprised how well I did all the same. I am curious though; you said you wanted to vote for both Fén Ghír and another one but you didn't say whether the other was Aarlaansk or Kihā́mmic. I feel like PMoB's absense would make his victory sort of a hollow one but it's definitely a strong and well thought out language while Aarlansk is interesting and would have had my vote it if wouldn't have been a vote against myself.
I think the deadline and announcement helped bring people out, maybe next time we should keep up the banner during the whole election period [barring more important announcements]. Otherwise, it wasn't bad for a first go. It might have helped if admins chipped two and maybe if we could vote for multiple languages? To avoid people abstaining due to an inability to pick one?
Oh, and a side note, you notice the Fén main page update? It's a bit of a cheap joke but humour seemed the best way to avoid getting too self referential.
-Cheers, Fauxlosophe (talk) 23:16, 30 May 2013 (CEST)
Good! I didn't? Oh, well, I meant for it to say Aarlaansk. Well, yes, but we couldn't take Kihā́mmic of the list because of his absence, the procedure is possible without the author. I for one was sure you'd win.
Well, voting on more than one language probably isn't the best solution. We shall be more involved next time though, and get it started earlier!
Oh, yeah, you mean featuring English? Yes, I noticed, I liked it a lot! Normally we want the translated main pages to be mirror pages, but since yours is featured, we'll make an exception. On another note, would you like to write a small description of the language to put on the main page, including the translation banner? Leave it at my wall and I'll add it there! Waahlis 08:14, 31 May 2013 (CEST)