Eta-Talmic: Difference between revisions

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The '''Talmic''' languages are a relatively isolated subbranch of the [[Quame languages|Quame]] language family. They are descended from '''Proto-Talmic''' ('''PTal''').
{{construction}}
==Phylogeny==
:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Lexicon]]
{{clade
:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Swadesh list]]
    |label1=[[Thensarian|Noble Thensarian]]
The '''Talmic languages''' (/ˈtɑːlmɪk/ ''TAHL-mik'') are a subfamily of the [[Quame languages]], originally spoken chiefly in the [[Bitaleta]] region in the planet of [[Verse:Tricin|Tricin]].
    |1={{clade
    |1=[[Gelorian]]
    |2=[[Bênôcian]]
    |3=[[Nurian]]
      }}
    |2=[[Andarin]]
    }}


*WESTERN TALMIC
* PET
**occitan = benocian (if i just use different sound changes)?
** Talmic
**pseudo-finnic ( = gallo-italic?)
*** [[Tigol]]
**pseudo-germanic
**** [[Eevo]]
***i want to make some of these tonal a la swedish - so a mini-wiebosphere?
**** [[Anbirese]]
**pseudo-french (oil languages)
**** Ciètian
***gelorian


==Proto-Talmic phonology==
== Syntax ==
*qʷ ɢʷ qʷ' > q ɢ q'
Although all present-day Talmic languages are rigidly head-initial, like Irish, Welsh and Southeast Asian languages, Proto-Talmic was much less so; we know this because different constructions and function words (such as prepositions and verbal morphology) fossilized in each Talmic subbranch.
*p' t' c' ƛ' k' kʷ' q' qʷ' > f þ s ł x xʷ χ χ
 
*s > h
== Morphology ==
*c > s
Pre-Tigol should keep the most inflections out of the Quame branches, so it was the worst language to Old Irishify
*ƛ > t
 
*z > r / V_
Proto-Talmic also had no inclusive vs exclusive we distinction; Tigolic and Qazhric gained the distinction under the influence of Lakovic.
===Consonant inventory===
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" class="bluetable lightbluebg" style="width: 700px; text-align:center;"
==History of Talmic studies==
! colspan="10"|Proto-Talmic reconstructed consonants (Guānitzhūtł)
===History of the term===
The Talmic family was referred to as the "''Kwēm'' languages" (Scellan: ''brits Cłeem'') in earlier Talman works, after the Thensarian word ''cēm'' for "one" inherited in all known Talmic languages at the time. Since contact with other Quihum languages such as [[Naquian]], the term Quame is used for the family that includes Talmic and Naquian.
 
==Todo==
*''-nəm'' = patientive
*''sθan-'' = gather
**''sθannəm'' = gathering
***Skellan ''sdann'' = (''mathematics'') set
**~ ''sta-'' in ''stāmom''?
 
*add 0 grade, lengthened grade.
**''-ssōs'' = another noun suffix
** 0 grade often > ə-grade but Cl, Cr > Cli-, Cri-
**lengthened grades: ā ī ū > ó ī ū
 
Change 1pl.ex from m to b
 
==Phonology==
Proto-Celtic gibberish with some added consonants and vowels
===Consonants===
{| border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" class="wikitable" style="width: 700px; text-align:center;"
|+ Proto-Talmic reconstructed consonants (Panzux)
|-
|-
! colspan="2" |
! colspan="2" |
!  |Labial
!  |Labial
!  |Dental
!  |Alveolar
!  |Alveolar
!  |Lateral
!  |Palatal
!  |Palatal
!  |Velar
!  |Velar
!  |Labiovelar
!  |Labiovelar
!  |Uvular
!  |Uvular
!  |Labiouvular
!  |Glottal
!  |Glottal
|-
|-
Line 45: Line 59:
|
|
|
|
|
|  
|  
|  
|  
Line 52: Line 67:
! rowspan="2" |Plosive
! rowspan="2" |Plosive
! |<small>voiceless</small>
! |<small>voiceless</small>
| *p
|
| *θ
| *t
| *t
|
|
|
| *k
| *k
| *kʷ
| *kʷ
| *q
| *q
| *ʔ
| *qʷ
|
|-
|-
! |<small>voiced</small>
! |<small>voiced</small>
| *b
| *b
| *δ
| *d
| *d
|
|  
|  
| *g
| *g
| *gʷ
| *gʷ
|
|  
|  
|  
|  
Line 74: Line 91:
! |<small>voiceless</small>
! |<small>voiceless</small>
| *ɸ
| *ɸ
| *s, *θ
| *ł
|  
|  
| *x
| *s
| *xʷ
|
| *χ
| [x]
|  
| [χ]
|
| *h
| *h
|-
|-
! |<small>voiced</small>
! |<small>voiced</small>
|  
|  
| *z, *ð
|  
|  
|  
|  
|  
|  
|
|  
|rowspan="2"| *ʁ
|
|rowspan="2"| *γ
|rowspan="2"| *γʷ
|  
|  
|-
|-
! colspan="2" |Approximant
! colspan="2" |Resonant
|
|  
|  
| *l
| *l
| *j
| *r
| *y
|  
|  
| *w
| *w
|   
|   
|-
! colspan="2" |Trill
|
| *r
|
|
|
|
|
|
|}
===Vocalic inventory===
{| border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" class="bluetable lightbluebg" style="width: 540px; text-align:center;"
! style="width: 90px; "|
! style="width: 90px; " |Front
! style="width: 90px; " |Central
! style="width: 90px; " |Back
|-
! style="" |Close
| *i *ī
|
| *u *ū
|-
! style="" |Mid
| *e *ē
|
| *o *ō
|-
! style="" |Open
|
| *a *ā
|
|}
Diphthongs:
*ai ei oi ui au eu iu ou
*āi ēi ōi ūi āu ēu īu ōu
==Proto-Talmic morphology==
===Nominal morphology===
Nouns and adjectives had retained from Proto-Zachydic 6 cases (nominative, accusative, genitive/prepositional, allative, ablative, locative/instrumental), 3 numbers, 2 genders (masculine, feminine), and additionally possessive inflection for nouns. Like its daughter languages as well as Proto-Zachydic, Common Talmic is thought to have been a [[w:differential object marking|differential object marking]] language; only definite or specific direct objects were marked with the accusative case.
The essive case (''*-ēri'') was marginal, and was only used adverbially (cf. Th. ''-ēr'' adverbial suffix).
Some nouns took the "thematic" suffix/clitic ''*-ʔ'' with an uncertain meaning, a holdover from the classifier system in Proto-Zachydic.
===Pronominal morphology===
Proto-Talmic free pronouns can be reconstructed with less confidence because all case marking except as clitics and suffixes was eliminated.
====Full personal pronouns====
====Possessive suffixes====
===Verbal morphology===
====Tense====
The Proto-Talmic verbal system has converted the pre-existing aspect-based perfective/imperfective dichotomy into a time-based one (past/non-past). The irregularity of the past system is probably a result of conflation of many different parent aspect systems.
====Aspect====
The following aspect suffixes can be reconstructed:
*prospective ''*-eh-''
*inceptive ''*-lʁa-''
*cessative ''*-mbe-''
====Mood====
Proto-Talmic has kept many moods intact (imperative, desiderative, hortative, optative). The negative imperative used the prohibitive particle along with the hortative form, as in Proto-Zachydic. The moods are frequently collapsed by its progeny (e.g. jussive in Themsaran).
====Thematic suffixes====
Proto-Talmic saw the development of thematic vowels from derivational suffixes. Thematic vowels are found in many Talmic languages, but modern languages often generalize the ''a''-paradigm to the expense of the others.
*''*-īn'': basic verbs
*''*-a-īn'': denominative or transitive verbs
*''*-e-īn'': dynamic or reflexive verbs
====TAM/subject affix paradigm====
Todo: rederive past tense... they don't look like they could (all) be perfective suffixes.
{| class="bluetable lightbluebg  " style=" text-align: center;"
|-
!colspan="4" | Subject affixes
|-
!colspan="4" | Present/Non-past
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-īn''
|''-dir''
|''-mī''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁ-sē''
|''-n-sē''
|-
!|2
|''-r''
|''-r-sē''
|''-l-sē''
|-
!|3.m
|''-m''
|rowspan="2"|''-iri-''
|''-ʁih''
|-
!|3.f
|''-isi''
|''-tih''
|-
!colspan="4" | Simple past
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-nʔe''
|''-sid''
|''-mā''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁʔā'', ''-tar''
|''-nʔā'', ''-taq''
|-
!|2
|''-rʔe''
|''-rʔā''
|''-lʔā''
|-
!|3.m
|''-ā(-m)''
|rowspan="2"|''-ā-iri''
|''-ā-ʁih''
|-
!|3.f
|''-ā-isi''
|''-ā-tih''
|-
!colspan="4" | Prospective
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-eh-īn''
|''-eh-dir''
|''-eh-mī''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-eh-ʁsē''
|''-eh-nsē''
|-
!|2
|''-eh-r''
|''-eh-rsē''
|''-eh-lsē''
|-
!|3.m
|''-eh-m''
|rowspan="2"|''-eh-iri-''
|''-eh-ʁēj''
|-
!|3.f
|''-eh-isi''
|''-eh-tēj''
|-
!colspan="4" | Imperative
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁsi''
|''-nsi''
|-
!|2
|''-h''
|''-rsi''
|''-lsi''
|-
!colspan="4" | Hortative
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-īn-ti''
|''-dis-ti''
|''-mī-ti''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁs-ti''
|''-ns-ti''
|-
!|2
|''-ti''
|''-rs-ti''
|''-ls-ti''
|-
!|3.m
|''-m-ti''
|rowspan="2"|''-iri-ti''
|''-ʁih-ti''
|-
!|3.f
|''-isi-ti''
|''-tih-ti''
|-
!colspan="4" | Desiderative
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-īn-ʔi''
|''-dir-ʔi''
|''-mī-ʔi''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁsē-ʔi''
|''-nsē-ʔi''
|-
!|2
|''-r-ʔi''
|''-rsē-ʔi''
|''-lsē-ʔi''
|-
!|3.m
|''-m-ʔi''
|rowspan="2"|''-iri-ʔ''
|''-ʁih-ʔi''
|-
!|3.f
|''-isi-ʔi''
|''-tih-ʔi''
|-
!colspan="4" | Optative
|-
!style="width: 50px; "|
!style="width: 125px; "|Singular
!style="width: 125px; "|Dual
!style="width: 125px; "|Plural
|-
!|1.ex
|''-īn-aʔ''
|''-dir-aʔ''
|''-mī-aʔ''
|-
!|1.in
|''-''
|''-ʁs-aʔ''
|''-ns-aʔ''
|-
!|2
|''-r-aʔ''
|''-rs-aʔ''
|''-ls-aʔ''
|-
!|3.m
|''-m-aʔ''
|rowspan="2"|''-ir-aʔ''
|''-ʁ-aʔ''
|-
!|3.f
|''-is-aʔ''
|''-t-aʔ''
|}
|}
The Talman dialects, which eventually became Tigol and Qazhrian, merged alveolar stops into dental stops and completely lost *φ, but Nurian and Roshterian keep the sounds distinct to this day under Idavic influence.


===Other verbal affixes===
===Vowels===
Other reconstructible affixes include:
a e i o u ā ē ī ō ū
 
*''*-pe-'' potential (e.g. Thm. ''tacvéi'' 'know (a fact)' < ''tak-pe-īn'' 'be able to say')
*''*-re-'' passive
*''*-ina-'' causative, i.e. supply sb with sth to [verb]/a patient of [verb]
*''*-ska-'' causative
*''*az-'', "towards" directional prefix.
*the memory evidential prefix ''*ʔṇʔ-''.
 
==Proto-Talmic syntax==
Basic word order was most likely SVO, as evinced by the order {{sc|verb-object suffix}} in all daughter languages.
 
==Sound changes to Proto-Talmic==
 
==Sound changes from Proto-Talmic==<!--
{| class="greentable lightgreenbg"
|-
|+ '''Talmic consonant correspondences'''
! PTal||[[Themsaran|Thm]]||[[Low Themsaran|LThm]]||[[Tizian|Tiz]]||[[Snaħħian|Sn]]||[[Qelorian|Qel]]
|-
| '''*m'''  || ''m'' || /m/ || /m/ || /m/ || /m/
|-
| '''*p'''  || ''p'' || /p/, /b/|| ||    || /p/
|-
| '''*b'''  || ''b'' || /b/ ||    ||    || /b/
|-
| '''*pʰ''' || ''f'' || /h/ ||    ||    || /p/
|-
| '''*n'''  || ''n'' || /n/ ||    ||    || /n/
|-
| '''*t'''  || ''t'' || /t/, /d/ ||    || || /t/
|-
| '''*d'''  || ''d'' || /j/ ||    ||    || /d/
|-
| '''*tʰ''' || ''th'' || /f/ || || /ħ/    || /t/
|-
| '''*s'''  || ''s'' || /s~ʃ/ ||  ||    /s/ || /s/
|-
| '''*z'''  || ''z'', ''r'' || /z~ʒ/, /ɾ/ ||  || /z/ || /z/
|-
| '''*ł'''  || ''th'', ''ch'' || /f/ || /ʃ/, /tʃʰ/ || /ʃ/ || /x/
|-
| '''*λ'''  || ''ð'', ''ch'' || /v/ || /ʒ/, /dʒʱ/ || /ʒ/ || Ø
|-
| '''*ƛ'''  || ''ŧ'' || /ts~tʃ/  || /tʃ/, /tʃʰ/ || /tʃ/  || /ts/
|-
| '''*k'''  || ''c'', ''ch'' || /k/, /g/, /tʃ/, /ʒ/  || /k/, /kʰ/ || || /k/
|-
| '''*g'''  || ''g'', ''ch'' || /g/, /ʒ/, /w/ || /g/, /gʱ/ || || /g/
|-
| '''*kʰ''' || ''ch'', ''c'' || /x/, /ʃ/ || /x/, /kxʰ/ || || /k/
|-
| '''*q'''  || ''q'', ''ħ'' || /ɴ/, /h/ || /ʡ/, /ʡʰ/ || /ŋ~ɴ/ || /ʕ/
|-
| '''*ʁ'''  || ''ħ'', ''v'' || /h/, /w/ || /w/, /ʍ/ || /ʁ/ || /ħ/
|-
| '''*qʰ''' || ''ħ'' || /h/ || /ʕ/, /ħ/ || /ʕ/, /ħ/ || /ʕ/
|-
| '''*l''' || ''l'' || /l/ ||    || || /l/
|-
| '''*r''' || ''r'' || /ɾ/ ||    || /ʁ/ || /r/
|-
| '''*w''' || ''v'' || /v/ ||    || /f/ || /v/
|-
| '''*j''' || ''ı'' || /j/ ||    ||  || Ø
|-
| '''*h''' || ''h'' || /h/ ||    ||  || Ø
|-
| '''*ʔ''' || Ø || Ø ||    ||  || Ø
|}-->
<!--
===to Snaħħian===
<nowiki>*</nowiki>ç *ɟ *ŧ > /ʃ ʒ tʃ/
 
/ts dz/ > /st zd/
 
/ʁ/ > /ʁ/
 
/h/ > /ʔ/
 
/ʃ ʒ tʃ/ > /s z ts/
 
/k g x ts dz s/ > /t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ʃ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ʃ/ _V[+front]
 
/b d g/
*> [β ð ɣ] / V_V, V_#
*> [m n ŋ] / C[+nasal, +homorganic]_
 
/p t t͡s k/ > /b d d͡z g/ / V_V, V_#, C[+nasal]_
 
/pp tt tt͡s kk/ > /p t t͡s k/


[ð ɣ]
Diphthongs:
*> /j/ / _V[+front], _#
*> [ɦ] / _V[-front]


[β]
ai ei oi ui au eu iu ou
*> [ɦ] / _V[+front]
*> /ɸ~β/ / _V[-front], _#


<nowiki>*</nowiki>zd, *žd > *dz, *dž
==Derivational morphology==
===Affixes===
Some derivational affixes are:
*''-nam'' (n.) = patient suffix
*''-ā-'' = verbalizer (from ''*-əx̌-''; just for the Proto-Celtic gibbiness)
**What if ''*-əx̌-'' meant something else in PQuih?
**Roshterian ''-ia-/-i-'' - fossilized suffix in many verbs
*''-ākos'' (n.) = verbal noun (from ''*-əx̌-'' verbalizer + ''*-kas'' = older VN suffix)
**Roshterian ''-iac''
*''-akt(V)-'' = adjectivizer
**Roshterian ''-ait''


/l/ > /w/ / _C
====Ablaut patterns====


===to Tizian===
==Syntax==
*/w/ > /v/
The emphatic particle {{recon|''-is''}} was commonly suffixed to the verb.
*/ʁ/
== Gibberish ==
**> /w/ _C[-velar],
φīxs kʷēmos φaro δlanγeweti δe srībou γʷnāmesor δe φīna qrādomāxtim. γonyanθis wli nayesi, smā-deuφrimor briqennās bakū kardasweis wli φasminō. Sθām lugyeθais wli bosqōr kʷisδalābis, kas φaxθīm φar woltāyessis-do, bar Bouγʷātlom wli qaswīqis. Nai brāyos δe nenmōrus skʷedoxtānis! φirwōd φēs-naxθitor qetibāti meudyūs! Φosnīdyōr daγʷāi δe nosθenqʷētās qʷlāwītor.
**> /ʕ/ otherwise
*/n/ > /ː/ _C[-glide]
*/l/ > /r/ _C[-glide]
*/z/ > /r/ / _C[+voiced, not /z/]
*/sŧ, šŧ/ > /št/
*Stress accent develops from initial stress.
*/aː/ > /o/
*/eː oː/ > /e˞ o˞/ <ee oo>
*/iː uː ʉː/ > /iɚ uɚ ʉɚ/ medially.
*/ai ei/ > /ei i/
*/ç ʝ/
**> /ʃ ʒ/
*/p t ŧ k b d g/ > /pʰ tʰ ŧʰ kʰ bʰ dʰ gʰ/
**_V[+high tone]
**_C[+fricative]#
-->


==Vocabulary==
*{{recon|''az-''}} telic
**Thm. ''ar-''/''as-''
***Núr. ''ar-'' superlative, intensive; ''s-'' telic


[[Category:Proto-languages|T]][[Category:Pfeuno-K'aitian languages|T]]
[[Category:Tricin]][[Category:Talmic languages|*]]

Latest revision as of 00:46, 9 August 2022

Eta-Talmic/Lexicon
Eta-Talmic/Swadesh list

The Talmic languages (/ˈtɑːlmɪk/ TAHL-mik) are a subfamily of the Quame languages, originally spoken chiefly in the Bitaleta region in the planet of Tricin.

Syntax

Although all present-day Talmic languages are rigidly head-initial, like Irish, Welsh and Southeast Asian languages, Proto-Talmic was much less so; we know this because different constructions and function words (such as prepositions and verbal morphology) fossilized in each Talmic subbranch.

Morphology

Pre-Tigol should keep the most inflections out of the Quame branches, so it was the worst language to Old Irishify

Proto-Talmic also had no inclusive vs exclusive we distinction; Tigolic and Qazhric gained the distinction under the influence of Lakovic.

History of Talmic studies

History of the term

The Talmic family was referred to as the "Kwēm languages" (Scellan: brits Cłeem) in earlier Talman works, after the Thensarian word cēm for "one" inherited in all known Talmic languages at the time. Since contact with other Quihum languages such as Naquian, the term Quame is used for the family that includes Talmic and Naquian.

Todo

  • -nəm = patientive
  • sθan- = gather
    • sθannəm = gathering
      • Skellan sdann = (mathematics) set
    • ~ sta- in stāmom?
  • add 0 grade, lengthened grade.
    • -ssōs = another noun suffix
    • 0 grade often > ə-grade but Cl, Cr > Cli-, Cri-
    • lengthened grades: ā ī ū > ó ī ū

Change 1pl.ex from m to b

Phonology

Proto-Celtic gibberish with some added consonants and vowels

Consonants

Proto-Talmic reconstructed consonants (Panzux)
Labial Dental Alveolar Palatal Velar Labiovelar Uvular Labiouvular Glottal
Nasal *m *n
Plosive voiceless *θ *t *k *kʷ *q *qʷ
voiced *b *δ *d *g *gʷ
Fricative voiceless *ɸ *s [x] [χ] *h
voiced *γ *γʷ
Resonant *l *r *y *w

The Talman dialects, which eventually became Tigol and Qazhrian, merged alveolar stops into dental stops and completely lost *φ, but Nurian and Roshterian keep the sounds distinct to this day under Idavic influence.

Vowels

a e i o u ā ē ī ō ū

Diphthongs:

ai ei oi ui au eu iu ou

Derivational morphology

Affixes

Some derivational affixes are:

  • -nam (n.) = patient suffix
  • -ā- = verbalizer (from *-əx̌-; just for the Proto-Celtic gibbiness)
    • What if *-əx̌- meant something else in PQuih?
    • Roshterian -ia-/-i- - fossilized suffix in many verbs
  • -ākos (n.) = verbal noun (from *-əx̌- verbalizer + *-kas = older VN suffix)
    • Roshterian -iac
  • -akt(V)- = adjectivizer
    • Roshterian -ait

Ablaut patterns

Syntax

The emphatic particle *-is was commonly suffixed to the verb.

Gibberish

φīxs kʷēmos φaro δlanγeweti δe srībou γʷnāmesor δe φīna qrādomāxtim. γonyanθis wli nayesi, smā-deuφrimor briqennās bakū kardasweis wli φasminō. Sθām lugyeθais wli bosqōr kʷisδalābis, kas φaxθīm φar woltāyessis-do, bar Bouγʷātlom wli qaswīqis. Nai brāyos δe nenmōrus skʷedoxtānis! φirwōd φēs-naxθitor qetibāti meudyūs! Φosnīdyōr daγʷāi δe nosθenqʷētās qʷlāwītor.

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